The dugout dust-up....

[Leroy Jenkins]

Some of you have gotten so singularly focused on one candidate, Haier, that you cannot open yourself up to other possibilities. It is very likely Haier would prefer to stay at Campbell over come here. I do not think some of you realize the shit we are about to eat in the coaching world for firing a coach 2 years removed from a national championship. This is not football where schools are raking in 100 mil plus each and every year.

You mean eating shit for firing a coach who finished last in the conference 2 years in a row.... despite having more resources than his competition? I don't think so.

[Coach34]

You mean eating shit for firing a coach who finished last in the conference 2 years in a row.... despite having more resources than his competition? I don't think so.

Baseball is different than football. Thats why you have so many coaches with long careers at one school. Firing Lemon 2 years after a Natty is going to eliminate alot of candidates

Doesnt mean we cant hire a good coach- but it will turn off alot of guys.

[Commercecomet24]

Baseball is different than football. Thats why you have so many coaches with long careers at one school. Firing Lemon 2 years after a Natty is going to eliminate alot of candidates

Doesnt mean we cant hire a good coach- but it will turn off alot of guys.

This is accurate. 2 different animals.

[Coach34]

This is accurate. 2 different animals.

and especially no successful coach at a major school would make that jump. We will have to hire a mid-major head or P5 lower, or a top Asst from the SEC/ACC

[Leroy Jenkins]

Baseball is different than football. Thats why you have so many coaches with long careers at one school. Firing Lemon 2 years after a Natty is going to eliminate alot of candidates

Doesnt mean we cant hire a good coach- but it will turn off alot of guys.

I have no doubt he'll be back. The point is, with this mammoth collapse, he shouldn't be.

W-L record aside, there are just too many other issues.

[Homedawg]

Just a point about butch- and I like butch. But he doesn't change pitchers mechanics. Doesn't believe in it. Says it's too hard to change what they have grown up doing. And if you change something and it doesn't work you get blamed. He will try to change arm slot, but not mechanics. He says he just doesn't recruit those guys. Which sounds great in theory....Just a bit of info

[sandjunky]

Just a point about butch- and I like butch. But he doesn't change pitchers mechanics. Doesn't believe in it. Says it's too hard to change what they have grown up doing. And if you change something and it doesn't work you get blamed. He will try to change arm slot, but not mechanics. He says he just doesn't recruit those guys. Which sounds great in theory....Just a bit of info

Changing mechanics for the sake of changing mechanics is a recipe for an arm injury

Changing mechanics based on biomechanic efficiency is another story

[Homedawg]

Changing mechanics for the sake of changing mechanics is a recipe for an arm injury

Changing mechanics based on biomechanic efficiency is another story

He doesn't change them period is my point. Straight out of his mouth to my ears.

[Coach34]

Just a point about butch- and I like butch. But he doesn't change pitchers mechanics. Doesn't believe in it. Says it's too hard to change what they have grown up doing. And if you change something and it doesn't work you get blamed. He will try to change arm slot, but not mechanics. He says he just doesn't recruit those guys. Which sounds great in theory....Just a bit of info

You know how old we are? We coached against each other 25 years ago. Wow time flies

I agree with Butch in that I would not recruit guys that had a major mechanics issue no matter how talented. In this day and age there are too many kids out there that should be pretty solid mechanically. But the biggest problem to me has been our willingness to recruit throwers vs pitchers. I get the mentality of spin rate and arm talent- but you also just have to recruit "pitchers". Guys that can just get people out.

JP France for example. Transferred in from Tulane and had a good year for us his Sr year. Wasnt overpowering but could pitch. Just got called up for the Astros.

[Pancho]

Sounds like he can identify talent that can in most cases actually throw strikes. At least they throw more % strikes than the Lemo/Fox system.

[Saltydog]

Just a point about butch- and I like butch. But he doesn't change pitchers mechanics. Doesn't believe in it. Says it's too hard to change what they have grown up doing. And if you change something and it doesn't work you get blamed. He will try to change arm slot, but not mechanics. He says he just doesn't recruit those guys. Which sounds great in theory....Just a bit of info

Never knew that but I like how he taught our pitchers to attack the bottom half of the zone. . . . . We turned a lot of DP's under Butch. . . . .

[sandjunky]

He doesn't change them period is my point. Straight out of his mouth to my ears.

I don?t doubt that but if you change arm slot you are changing mechanics

[sandjunky]

You know how old we are? We coached against each other 25 years ago. Wow time flies

I agree with Butch in that I would not recruit guys that had a major mechanics issue no matter how talented. In this day and age there are too many kids out there that should be pretty solid mechanically. But the biggest problem to me has been our willingness to recruit throwers vs pitchers. I get the mentality of spin rate and arm talent- but you also just have to recruit "pitchers". Guys that can just get people out.

JP France for example. Transferred in from Tulane and had a good year for us his Sr year. Wasnt overpowering but could pitch. Just got called up for the Astros.

I?ve said this for a min now - whether it?s foxhall tinkering or what

Graveman was a pitcher - what 90-92 at state - now runs up to 99

Fascinating dude to talk pitching with and how he wants his catchers to receive each pitch

[Coach34]

I?ve said this for a min now - whether it?s foxhall tinkering or what

Graveman was a pitcher - what 90-92 at state - now runs up to 99

Fascinating dude to talk pitching with and how he wants his catchers to receive each pitch

Agree. I was a guy that threw 80 with a very good sinker and split FB that dropped down and in to righties. So I got a shit ton of ground balls. I could 4-seam about 82 at the hands and did that at times to keep hitters honest. I gave up 2 HR's in 2 years of juco with a career ERA in the 3's. I could just pitch.(for context- that's late 80's so ease up on the comparision to today). I knew nobody was coming after me because I didnt throw hard enough to move up a level. And I couldnt hit a slider to play everyday in the SEC. But I do regret not taking that offer to walk-on at Okra U.

We need more guys that can pitch. Holcombe has alot of talent and his country ass can sling it. But Holcombe is a thrower- not a pitcher. I like the kid. But we need fewer of these of more Cade's.

[Homedawg]

I don?t doubt that but if you change arm slot you are changing mechanics

Technically speaking yes. I'm referring to leg swingers, cross body, tilted shoulders, drop and drive, any of the other hundreds of things that can cause issues. He doesn't touch em

[Coach34]

I don?t doubt that but if you change arm slot you are changing mechanics

Homedawg is an outstanding baseball mind. Not just a fan

[Coach34]

Technically speaking yes. I'm referring to leg swingers, cross body, tilted shoulders, drop and drive, any of the other hundreds of things that can cause issues. He doesn't touch em

kinda explains our pitching recruiting while he was at State

Thompson's changing arm slots on Girodo to make a guy that couldnt get anybody out to a guy that was outstanding out of the pen is one of the greatest transformations in coaching I've seen.

[DownwardDawg]

I wish Lemonis would figure it out. I like the dude. But I like winning more.

[basedog]

Quote from 34
?We need more guys that can pitch. Holcombe has alot of talent and his country ass can sling it. But Holcombe is a thrower- not a pitcher. I like the kid. But we need fewer of these of more Cade's.?

34, you nailed! Cade is much better imo when he stays in low 90?s, he seems to be throwing more up in the zone, I don?t see him using his breaking ball as much either. Something changed.
JMO

[Homedawg]

Agree. I was a guy that threw 80 with a very good sinker and split FB that dropped down and in to righties. So I got a shit ton of ground balls. I could 4-seam about 82 at the hands and did that at times to keep hitters honest. I gave up 2 HR's in 2 years of juco with a career ERA in the 3's. I could just pitch.(for context- that's late 80's so ease up on the comparision to today). I knew nobody was coming after me because I didnt throw hard enough to move up a level. And I couldnt hit a slider to play everyday in the SEC. But I do regret not taking that offer to walk-on at Okra U.

We need more guys that can pitch. Holcombe has alot of talent and his country ass can sling it. But Holcombe is a thrower- not a pitcher. I like the kid. But we need fewer of these of more Cade's.

It's the entire world of baseball and I don't like it. Obviously, our problems are worse than the rest. But how bout this stat, outside of skenes LSU's staff era in sec games was 7.15 BEFORE sundays game, one they got routed in!!! Skenes is a game changer and changed that entire team. Just think if we had him and Cade were our sat guy.... others have stated it but that stat points it out.