Foxhall Thoughts

[Todd4State]

The news today was surprising to me since I just figured that we would wait until the end of the year to fire Foxhall. He has been gone for awhile now really. I knew it. You knew it. Everyone knew it.

The question is how do we go from National Champs to that in two years? (Or less)

When we hired Foxhall he had a good reputation. I think he was at one time a really good coach. But what I think may have happened is he got caught up in analytics too much and got away from baseball fundamentals too much. The result was a lot of strike outs but also a lot of walks. And hits. Foxhall's style of high velocity and pitching up in the zone was great for some pitchers- like Landon Sims. And Will Bednar. But every pitcher is different. You can be successful as a pitcher a number of ways. Nolan Ryan, Greg Maddux, Sandy Koufax, Clayton Kershaw, Dan Quisenberry, Mariano Rivera, and Phil Niekro were all great pitchers and all are or should be in the HOF. All were very different pitchers too. A pitching coach's job is to figure out the strengths and weaknesses of each pitcher and tailer a plan of attack to take advantage of the pitcher's "stuff". That's the advantage of having a pitching lab. We can analyze a ton of things and with a good pitching coach figure out how to tailor a plan for each pitcher. Foxhall to me watching from the stands however, seemed to try to make every pitcher into the same guy. That's a recipe for disaster. We need a pitching coach that can work with a variety of styles. It's really really hard IMO to find a bunch of pitchers that have the same type of stuff and on top of that it's also unnecessary.

The other thing that Foxhall did that was really poor was in game management. This is what has killed us the past two years more than anything IMO. How many times has KC Hunt come into a game and thrown two innings of scoreless baseball and he looks good and then Foxhall tries to steal another inning out of him and next thing you know he has allowed 3-5 runs. That kind of stuff can't happen. How many times has Gartman been left in a game too long? I felt like he would try to save pitchers too much and you can not manage like that in baseball. You have to coach in the moment. You deal with tomorrow tomorrow. Thursday night against Tennessee- we're down 4-1 in like the fourth inning with a LOT of baseball left to play and we trot out Tyson Hardin one of our last guys in the pen. He gives up three runs. We lose the game 8-7. If we bring in Siary or someone like that we probably hold the other team down enough for us to rally.

Now Lemonis did do this to save his job. Absolutely. But he also did it in an effort to salvage the season and hopefully at least get a SECT bid. Will it work? I don't know. It could absolutely go either way. This team may rally and a new voice whomever that is and we might get hot. We also may tank and lose out the rest of the year. Lemonis should have done this way sooner than he did IMO. But what is done is done. If it works Lemonis may save his job. If it doesn't work- well it's the same difference as keeping Foxhall. So from his point of view Lemonis doesn't really have anything to lose at this point.

And I've seen some MSU fans mad at Lemonis because they think that this will automatically save his job. Well- these same fans were complaining that he should be fired for not making a change and now they're complaining because he made the change because it might help him to stay? It's hard to keep up with some of our fan's inconsistency. Well- if it makes those fans feel better I don't think this move necessarily saves Lemonis at all. He still has to win at least a few games. That will only be decided on the field. This is a gamble for Lemonis and it could save or cost him his job.

Who takes over in the meantime? I don't know. Lemonis says he has some sort of plan. It will be interesting. Cheesebrough takes over probably? It's anyone's guess at this point.

MSU deserves the best in baseball. And that's the type of pitching coach MSU should target. We pay well enough that we should get someone good. Will some guys transfer? Sure. But that happens every year. It's not like they were going to get better under Foxhall. Whoever we hire may be able to bring a few pitchers with him. So, it goes both ways.

No matter what happens the rest of the year this was a good day for Mississippi State baseball. This is the first step to moving in the right direction.

[MaroonFlounder]

Just a different approach would make a difference.

You can't strike out everybody. Fox wanted to. Nibbling the corners doesn't work anymore with TrackMan and UMPs that have matchbox zones. Getting behind on counts right off the bat.

Jay Powell said it best, there has to be a balance of "pitch to contact" and "mow em down from the first pitch" And if you happen to get 2 strikes on a hitter, then reach back for something extra. That was his philosophy, and I'd love to have him on an interim basis working with these kids. I wish we'd get away from the wristband communications, or maybe only use them on certain counts. We have a true freshman catcher who is gonna be good if he stays, but right now has a lot on his plate, and struggles to block balls up.

As far as the "pitch to contact" approach, it would be better with guys that have some sink, so that those balls don't leave the yard. These guys don't get a lot of swing and miss. We have no straight junk-ballers like Jon Hardin back in the day. That's what confounds these FB hitters these days. Off speed that makes a 89mph FB seem faster, and mix in a breaker. Those days seem gone.

[basedog]

I thought during the Tn series Foxhall had basically given up, when your pitching Coach doesn't come to the mound and try to settle down the pitcher, then he doesn't care any longer.
Lemonis is a dead man walking, first off we aren't making the Sec Tourney, second, our pitchers will still struggle, and thirdly, this firing is a smoke screen to try and calm the storm but it is too big to overcome.

Lemonis has to know he messed up and panic set in a while back. I've said this many times, we celebrated like it was going out of style way too long and hard. We relaxed and now we have been hit with a 18 wheeler which damaged our program and now we must build a new program.

I hope we win every game, but we will be lucky to win 2 and 3 at most.

[AlSwearengen]

I have thought the same about Foxhall trying to move into the new world of analytics without having a total grasp of it. It probably made things worse because he had Bednar, Simms, and a couple others that could use spin and velocity effectively. Sort of a fool's gold type of thing.

He probably understood analytics but fell too deeply in love with it and brought kids in that had good spin but weren't effective with it or he couldn't teach them to be effective with it.

[Cooterpoot]

He got us Bednar....the end

[PGHBulldogBG]

We might be able to take 2 from aTm at home, but I don’t see us beating Ark or LSU. If we are lucky we beat Ark 1 game

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

He needed to go, but I wonder if we'll have trouble getting a quality name since Lemonis may be viewed as on the chopping block in 2024.

[R2Dawg]

He needed to go, but I wonder if we'll have trouble getting a quality name since Lemonis may be viewed as on the chopping block in 2024.

Not getting a big name for reasons you mention.

Going to have to be a young up and comer hoping to strike gold and a big time program knowing he could be one and done.

[maroonmania]

I have thought the same about Foxhall trying to move into the new world of analytics without having a total grasp of it. It probably made things worse because he had Bednar, Simms, and a couple others that could use spin and velocity effectively. Sort of a fool's gold type of thing.

Ethan Small was another pitcher that Foxhall had big success with using spin and velocity and pitching up in the zone. But it takes a special guy to pitch like that consistently and be successful.

[Pancho]

His mistake was attempting to have each pitcher on the staff throw that way.

[maroonmania]

Not getting a big name for reasons you mention.

Going to have to be a young up and comer hoping to strike gold and a big time program knowing he could be one and done.

Fine with me. We can probably hire a top notch HS pitching coach and improve on what we are currently doing. This pitching staff is historically bad.

[tcdog70]

The first mistake was not firing Lemonis last year. never should a MSU team come in last place. that should be an automatic firing offense. I really think a Coach that doen't make Hoover should be gone. Accountability-is a great thing--only losers don't have it.

[The Federalist Engineer]

The first mistake was not firing Lemonis last year. never should a MSU team come in last place. that should be an automatic firing offense. I really think a Coach that doen't make Hoover should be gone. Accountability-is a great thing--only losers don't have it.

I'm glad for 2021's title. Needed it then, then needed it more in 2022. Imagine if no title in 2021, OM wins the 2022 NC.

But the title made it harder to course correct. Now things are stalled and falling apart. If only Fox had parlayed his 2021 into a HC job at Ole Miss. wouldn't that be something.

June 30, 2021 - win the title
July 4 2021 - Fox to Ole Miss as HC
July 15, 2021 - Lemons to LSU as HC, replace Manieri
July 20, 2021 - Vitello to Mississippi State

This would have Wrecked our Rivals. But in late summer 2021, we would have been upset.