Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: The Mississippi State Baseball Paradox

  1. #1
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    40,209
    vCash
    3700

    The Mississippi State Baseball Paradox

    This refers to a large portion of MSU baseball fans and maybe fans in general.

    We want to win. We want to play in preseason tournaments, play tough brand name teams OOC, win the Governor's Cup, win the SEC, SEC Tournament, host a regional and a Super Regional as a National Seed, and of course go to Omaha and win it all.

    Which is fair because we have accomplished all of those things- most of those things multiple times.

    BUT

    We have a large segment that also demands that we be "nice" when doing it. We want people to think we're good, classy, and nice. That we just enjoy the game because baseball is great. We want to give players food after the game. And we want the players and coaches to be nice as well. And in turn we are expected to be nice to our coaches and players.

    The problem is a large segment of our fans (hi Everett Kennard!) value and place being nice over winning.

    We look for answers as to how and why we could drop so quickly as a program in such a short period of time and some of it goes back to overemphasizing the nice over winning.

    For example- Lemonis decided to keep several pitching recruits who were known to be injured coming into school. None of those pitchers are with us anymore. That has created a lot of problems. We also kept Foxhall because we wanted to give him another chance. He still sucks. We also have given players on the current roster chances to stay instead of recruiting over them in the portal. Because we're nice.

    Just an observation from afar. Until we prioritize winning over being nice like John Cohen did when he was our coach we'll struggle. But people will like us!

  2. #2
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,199
    vCash
    98074
    Yep. Not sure that the keeping pitchers thing was nice over winning. It was more potential over what's actually there. But everything else is pretty much spot on. And you're right, a large segment would rather be nice and lose than be Tennessee and win. And that's not an opinion, I have seen multiple "fans" over the last few weeks say they'd stop supporting the program, which is a load of BS, if we became like Tennessee. Hell, I wish we were like Tennessee. They got eyeballs to college baseball and play in a cracker box. We'd have an Omaha level stadium to show off when people tuned in.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    8,588
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    This refers to a large portion of MSU baseball fans and maybe fans in general.

    We want to win. We want to play in preseason tournaments, play tough brand name teams OOC, win the Governor's Cup, win the SEC, SEC Tournament, host a regional and a Super Regional as a National Seed, and of course go to Omaha and win it all.

    Which is fair because we have accomplished all of those things- most of those things multiple times.

    BUT

    We have a large segment that also demands that we be "nice" when doing it. We want people to think we're good, classy, and nice. That we just enjoy the game because baseball is great. We want to give players food after the game. And we want the players and coaches to be nice as well. And in turn we are expected to be nice to our coaches and players.

    The problem is a large segment of our fans (hi Everett Kennard!) value and place being nice over winning.

    We look for answers as to how and why we could drop so quickly as a program in such a short period of time and some of it goes back to overemphasizing the nice over winning.

    For example- Lemonis decided to keep several pitching recruits who were known to be injured coming into school. None of those pitchers are with us anymore. That has created a lot of problems. We also kept Foxhall because we wanted to give him another chance. He still sucks. We also have given players on the current roster chances to stay instead of recruiting over them in the portal. Because we're nice.

    Just an observation from afar. Until we prioritize winning over being nice like John Cohen did when he was our coach we'll struggle. But people will like us!
    You act like it is an either or. It isn't. You can both win and be nice. No one saying you don't do the hard things in your job like holding people accountable and playing tough competitive ball. You can do all that and still be nice. You can be an asshole and suck too.

  4. #4
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,199
    vCash
    98074
    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    You act like it is an either or. It isn't. You can both win and be nice. No one saying you don't do the hard things in your job like holding people accountable and playing tough competitive ball. You can do all that and still be nice. You can be an asshole and suck too.
    Someone's gotta be the villain. Why Not Us? Let's be The Bad Boys. Being nice isn't that fun anyways.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Fairhope, AL
    Posts
    4,548
    vCash
    1000
    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    You act like it is an either or. It isn't. You can both win and be nice. No one saying you don't do the hard things in your job like holding people accountable and playing tough competitive ball. You can do all that and still be nice. You can be an asshole and suck too.
    ^^^^^^^

  6. #6
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Home of Slay, GA
    Posts
    11,916
    vCash
    1746501
    I'll disagree a bit - I think most of our fans want teams to win with class and sportsmanship. They can have fire. They can showboat at appropriate moments (Big Hit Mac comes to mind). They need to have hustle. They can be cocky.

    The people who want "Nice" the same people who "root for Ole Miss because it helps Mississippi when any of us win". I don't know what to call them, but I refuse to call them fans.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    10,866
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    Yep. Not sure that the keeping pitchers thing was nice over winning. It was more potential over what's actually there. But everything else is pretty much spot on. And you're right, a large segment would rather be nice and lose than be Tennessee and win. And that's not an opinion, I have seen multiple "fans" over the last few weeks say they'd stop supporting the program, which is a load of BS, if we became like Tennessee. Hell, I wish we were like Tennessee. They got eyeballs to college baseball and play in a cracker box. We'd have an Omaha level stadium to show off when people tuned in.
    TN is a bunch of classless douchebags led by an emotional and petulant child who assaults umpires.

    You can be a hard ass, tough, and cut peoples throat while still playing the right way and respecting the game of baseball. It ain't hard.

  8. #8
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,199
    vCash
    98074
    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    TN is a bunch of classless douchebags led by an emotional and petulant child who assaults umpires.

    You can be a hard ass, tough, and cut peoples throat while still playing the right way and respecting the game of baseball. It ain't hard.
    And we're led by a guy who sits on a bucket and gets run ruled. I'd take Vitello. "Play the right way" will y'all stop with this crap. You can say what you mean because it's painfully obvious. Y'all want to us play like a bunch of private school white kids from the 1980s. Screw that. Go win. It doesn't matter how you do it. The 2021 team wasn't choir boys. They celebrated and were obnoxious with it. They talked crap. It's just acceptable because that was our team. Y'all just don't like it as much when it's being done to you.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    10,866
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    And we're led by a guy who sits on a bucket and gets run ruled. I'd take Vitello. "Play the right way" will y'all stop with this crap. You can say what you mean because it's painfully obvious. Y'all want to us play like a bunch of private school white kids from the 1980s. Screw that. Go win. It doesn't matter how you do it. The 2021 team wasn't choir boys. They celebrated and were obnoxious with it. They talked crap. It's just acceptable because that was our team. Y'all just don't like it as much when it's being done to you.
    Whatever. Nobody on that 2021 team ever assaulted an umpire or ran around the bases flipping off all the outfielders.

    And why are you bringing race into this? A lot of the TN douschbage who assault umpires and flip off opponents while rounding the bases are white kids. I'd take a team full of Dakota Jordan's every day. Get out of here with that garbage.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    84
    vCash
    3100
    I'll give you an example of what I am looking for from our baseball team.

    My son was pitching in a 7-8th grade game at our rivals field. We are ahead by one run going into their last at bat. The bases are loaded with two outs and their dugout is chirping and screaming at my son. Instead of letting it get to him, he strikes the last batter out and proceeds to put his finger to his lips in a shushing motion aimed at their dugout as he walks off the mound. Our coach gets on to him and says we don't act like that and I agree with the coach, but I also want my son to have the attitude that if you're going to chirp at me I'm going to shove it down your throat and make you like it.

    That's what I want from players and coaches at MSU. Jeff Brantley was an example of that from my perspective.
    Last edited by GeoDawg; 03-29-2023 at 04:55 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    10,866
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDawg View Post
    I'll give you an example of what I am looking for from our baseball team.

    My son was pitching in a 7-8th game at our rivals field. We are ahead by one run going into their last at bat. The bases are loaded with two outs and their dugout is chirping and screaming at my son. Instead of letting it get to him, he strikes the last batter out and proceeds to put his finger to his lips in a shushing motion aimed at their dugout as he walks off the mound. Our coach gets on to him and says we don't act like that and I agree with the coach, but I also want my son to have the attitude that if your going to chirp at me I'm going to shove it down your throat and make you like it.

    That's what I want form players and coaches at MSU. Jeff Brantley was an example of that from my perspective.
    Ethan small. Perfect example. Nobody has a problem with that. Love seeing it.

    Now if he cusses out an umpire like the TN guy did or runs around the bases flipping off the outfielders, that's a problem.

  12. #12
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,199
    vCash
    98074
    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Whatever. Nobody on that 2021 team ever assaulted an umpire or ran around the bases flipping off all the outfielders.

    And why are you bringing race into this? A lot of the TN douschbage who assault umpires and flip off opponents while rounding the bases are white kids. I'd take a team full of Dakota Jordan's every day. Get out of here with that garbage.
    I literally watched Tanner Allen flip off the entire Tulane dugout in 2021 when he had a walk off hit. I also watched Ethan Small literally yell "F*** You" at the entire CMU dugout and the umpires in the 2019 regional.

    And I wasn't bringing race into it. What I was conveying was that some of y'all want a bunch of old timey unathletic kids who just "play hard". Are they good? No. But they "play hard". Y'all want the most unathletic version of Hunter Stovall and you want 9 of them. And btw, Hunter Stovall wore chains, talked trash, and did everything y'all don't like. But no one said anything because he was our player doing it so it was ok. I'd take 9 Hunter Stovall's. He didn't back down from anyone, played with a brashness, but backed it up. Just like Tennessee does
    Last edited by StarkVegasSteve; 03-29-2023 at 05:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    10,866
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    I literally watched Tanner Allen flip off the entire Tulane dugout in 2021 when he had a walk off hit. I also watched Ethan Small literally yell "F*** You" at the entire CMU dugout and the umpires in the 2019 regional.

    And I wasn't bringing race into it. What I was conveying was that some of y'all want a bunch of old timey unathletic kids who just "play hard". Are they good? No. But they "play hard". Y'all want the most unathletic version of Hunter Stovall and you want 9 of them. And btw, Hunter Stovall wore chains, talked trash, and did everything y'all don't like. But no one said anything because he was our player doing it so it was ok. I'd take 9 Hunter Stovall's. He didn't back down from anyone, played with a brashness, but backed it up. Just like Tennessee does
    Who is y'all? Who wants unathletic players? I've never see anybody say that they want unathletic versions of Hunter Stovall.

    And I was standing right by that Tulane dugout on the Sunday game TA walked them off with the single to left. Now there was a ton of jawing that day and warnings issued. But Please tell me where he was when he flipped the dugout off, because I know it wasnt running to first. Also, please tell me which umpire and after which inning small told the umpire F you vs CMU in 2019. I was standing by the dugout and have watched the game several times and never seen it. I still have it and would love to go watch.
    Last edited by confucius say; 03-29-2023 at 06:10 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,199
    vCash
    98074
    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Who is y'all? Who wants unathletic players? I've never see anybody say that they want unathletic versions of Hunter Stovall.

    And I was standing right by that Tulane dugout on the Sunday game TA walked them off with the single to left. Now there was a ton of jawing that day and warnings issued. But Please tell me where he was when he flipped the dugout off, because I know it wasnt running to first. Also, please tell me which umpire and after which inning small told the umpire F you vs CMU in 2019. I was standing by the dugout and have watched the game several times and never seen it. I still have it and would love to go watch.
    Damn. You were standing right by me at that Tulane game then! In the Triple Crown and I watched him say "F you" and flip them off. Now in his defense, they did it first so I guess he was just responding to them. The Small thing I was in the box for so was little higher and full disclosure had been drinking a bit but I seem to remember Small being pissed off about the strike zone and he struck the CMU guy out in the 2nd? inning and jawed at their dugout and when the ump told him to cool it he told him the same thing and Lemonis had to come out and talk to the ump after that one in between innings.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    10,866
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    Damn. You were standing right by me at that Tulane game then! In the Triple Crown and I watched him say "F you" and flip them off. Now in his defense, they did it first so I guess he was just responding to them. The Small thing I was in the box for so was little higher and full disclosure had been drinking a bit but I seem to remember Small being pissed off about the strike zone and he struck the CMU guy out in the 2nd? inning and jawed at their dugout and when the ump told him to cool it he told him the same thing and Lemonis had to come out and talk to the ump after that one in between innings.
    Guess so!
    Never saw him flip anybody off, and never small cuss out an umpire.

    But TA is exactly the kind of kid we need more of. And he was a white private school kid. Just like mangum. And if take a roster full of them. Know you would too. Chance has some of that in him too and he's a white private school kid.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    40,209
    vCash
    3700
    Just to clarify-

    Yes we can be classy and win with class and that's OK.

    But we need to emphasize being nice less and winning more.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    1,773
    vCash
    3000
    why not only feed em when we win. 17em if they win, problem solved

  18. #18
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,199
    vCash
    98074
    Just be like the Oakland Raiders. Just win baby.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    632
    vCash
    3200
    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    I literally watched Tanner Allen flip off the entire Tulane dugout in 2021 when he had a walk off hit. I also watched Ethan Small literally yell "F*** You" at the entire CMU dugout and the umpires in the 2019 regional.

    And I wasn't bringing race into it. What I was conveying was that some of y'all want a bunch of old timey unathletic kids who just "play hard". Are they good? No. But they "play hard". Y'all want the most unathletic version of Hunter Stovall and you want 9 of them. And btw, Hunter Stovall wore chains, talked trash, and did everything y'all don't like. But no one said anything because he was our player doing it so it was ok. I'd take 9 Hunter Stovall's. He didn't back down from anyone, played with a brashness, but backed it up. Just like Tennessee does
    Don?t think anyone wants unathletic kids. They want kids that have toughness and ability.

    It doesn?t matter where they go to high school, plenty of pussies in public and private school. Have to dig deeper and watch them to know what kind of mentality they have.
    Last edited by SPMT; 03-29-2023 at 09:02 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    13,252
    vCash
    3700
    I don't want 9 Hunter stovall's I love the kid. But 9 Hunter stovalls gets your ass whipped in this league.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Disclaimer: Elitedawgs is a privately owned and operated forum that is managed by alumni of Mississippi State University. This website is in no way affiliated with the Mississippi State University, The Southeastern Conference (SEC) or the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). The views and opinions expressed herein are strictly those of the post author and may not reflect the views of other members of this forum or elitedawgs.com. The interactive nature of the elitedawgs.com forums makes it impossible for elitedawgs.com to assume responsibility for any of the content posted at this site. Ideas, thoughts, suggestion, comments, opinions, advice and observations made by participants at elitedawgs.com are not endorsed by elitedawgs.com
Elitedawgs: A Mississippi State Fan Forum, Mississippi State Football, Mississippi State Basketball, Mississippi State Baseball, Mississippi State Athletics. Mississippi State message board.