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Senior Member
Lemonis was never prepared for this
Personally, I think Cohen took too much of Lemon's best friend advice. McDonnell wanted to get his good ol friend a big gig job. We gave that to him. He wasn't at the level that STATE needs. Take a look at his record prior to joining:
2015 Indiana 35-24 12-10 6th NCAA Regional
2016 Indiana 32-24 15-9 T-3rd
2017 Indiana 34-24-2 14-9-1 6th NCAA Regional
2018 Indiana 40-19 14-9 5th NCAA Regional
Honestly? I don't think he deserved it. It's showing. He's average at best and
WE DESERVE THE BEST of the BEST.
Thoughts...
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I think your theory is being proven by results.
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I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.
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Originally Posted by
Quaoarsking
I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.
There's something to be said for that. SloMo inherited a loaded team and shite the bed the first season.
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Lemonis is a supervisor, not an architect.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Quaoarsking
I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.
Cannazario had a lot to do with our NC.
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Maybe Cohen was hands on during NC season - gave the keys to Lemonis and he ran car off road last year
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Originally Posted by
Quaoarsking
I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.
Originally Posted by
viverlibre
There's something to be said for that. SloMo inherited a loaded team and shite the bed the first season.
Yes and yes.
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Lemonis first year here he left pitchers in way to long. I remember peeps here saying such. Foxhall couldn?t screw up all the alpha male pitchers we had. And we had other alpha males that absolutely refused to give up or lose games. Then we won a championship Lemonis and crew got all the pat on the backs, got all the national media coverage. The next year 2022 we roll out a gutted team. No Alfa males. Just bit players. 2023 Lemonis recruits hard and pulls players off the portal. But for whatever he didn?t prepare the team thoroughly for the season. Didn?t teach what it takes to play in the SEC. And god awful Foxhall just don?t know what the 7 he did to our pitchers. Anyway both need to be fired and sent far away!
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Originally Posted by
Quaoarsking
I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. The fact that Lemonis won MSU baseball?s first Natty is more on the incompetence of his predecessors. Besides a handful of schools, no one took baseball seriously for 50 years.
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Originally Posted by
Leeshouldveflanked
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. The fact that Lemonis won MSU baseball?s first Natty is more on the incompetence of his predecessors. Besides a handful of schools, no one took baseball seriously for 50 years.
Still, tho....when finding that "nut" is winning our first NC, it's obviously an accomplishment.
That being said, just as Q said before, something has clearly been lost and the train is well off the tracks.
I've been consistent on my Lem position this season. Unless there is some miraculous turn around (which I see zero hope for), we absolutely should clean house.
That being said, I think a lot of our fans over-estimate our ability to pull a no-doubt/elite/established head coach. All those guys turned us down last time, too. Which is why we ended up with Lemonis (who looked like a goldmine his first 3 seasons).
I'd love Butch, bc he's done way more with less at a historically basement program and bc of his ties here, but I could see a bunch of our fans even being disappointed with him.
Last edited by BeardoMSU; 03-26-2023 at 04:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by
BeardoMSU
Still, tho....when finding that "nut" is winning our first NC, it's obvious an accomplishment.
That being said, just as Q said before, something has cleared be lost and the train is well off the tracks.
I've been consistent on my Lem position this season. Unless there is some miraculous turn around (which I see zero hope for), we absolutely should clean house.
That being said, I think a lot of our fans over-estimate our ability to pull a no-doubt/elite/established head coach. All those guys turned us down last time, too. Which is why we ended up with Lemonis (who looked like a goldmine his first 3 seasons).
I'd love Butch, bc he's done way more with less at a historically basement program and bc of his ties here, but I could see a bunch of our fans even being disappointed with him.
I'd be thrilled with Butch.
You're right in that some fans will have too high of expectations. We're not going to pull a McDonnell, Corbin, Tadlock, or any other proven coach at a top 15 program. It's not gonna happen. We probably won't even pull Godwin.
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Lemonis is not a bad coach. He is just regressing back to the mean. Without the elite talent that he inherited that had already been developed he is an average coach. He will put us in the tournament every 2-3 years with a chance to host every 3-4 years. At some schools that is ok, it is not here.
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Originally Posted by
BHildreth3
Personally, I think Cohen took too much of Lemon's best friend advice. McDonnell wanted to get his good ol friend a big gig job. We gave that to him. He wasn't at the level that STATE needs. Take a look at his record prior to joining:
2015 Indiana 35-24 12-10 6th NCAA Regional
2016 Indiana 32-24 15-9 T-3rd
2017 Indiana 34-24-2 14-9-1 6th NCAA Regional
2018 Indiana 40-19 14-9 5th NCAA Regional
Honestly? I don't think he deserved it. It's showing. He's average at best and
WE DESERVE THE BEST of the BEST.
Thoughts...
Dan MacDonnell "recommended" his ace recruiter to JC.
MSU did win 40 SEC games and a National Championship
The project has run out of magic, that's the deal
Lemons will always have a ring that McD does not have.
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Still pisses me off how Cohen went around during that season of the coaching search saying the guy he was hiring had multiple CWS appearances. Then when his plan A, B, C fell through, he went to Lemonis.
Then we had the MSU media saying "well he did go to the CWS as an assistant coach"... ok ,but no where near the same as how Cohen was bragging about.
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Originally Posted by
KOdawg1
We probably won't even pull Godwin.
Every SEC school should be able to pull an AAC school in any sport. Missouri should be able to poach him if they were willing to commit to baseball, and if we can't, we are in serious trouble going forward.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
Lemonis is a supervisor, not an architect.
Good way to put it.
He's not going to meddle with his assistants and a lot of times that is the way to go. And honestly not always a bad thing.
But there are times where he needs to be the big dog and step in- and that is Lemonis's biggest fault right now.
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Originally Posted by
sandjunky
Maybe Cohen was hands on during NC season - gave the keys to Lemonis and he ran car off road last year
When Lemonis took over he had two first round pick guys in the rotation- Small and Ginn and then two more on the way in the form of Bednar and Sims. Also inherited Cole Gordon and Colby White who may both be MLB players. Peyton Plumlee was a very good college pitcher who came from a baseball family as his Dad played at Delta State.
Dustin Skelton was a solid catcher and we had LoTan coming in after him and Tanner will probably be a MLB catcher.
On the infield we had two first round picks and Tanner Allen.
Then we had Mangum and MacNamee in the outfield along with Rowdey.
We may have had Hunter Stovall on the team too when Lemonis got here- so yeah.
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Originally Posted by
Santiago
Still pisses me off how Cohen went around during that season of the coaching search saying the guy he was hiring had multiple CWS appearances. Then when his plan A, B, C fell through, he went to Lemonis.
Then we had the MSU media saying "well he did go to the CWS as an assistant coach"... ok ,but no where near the same as how Cohen was bragging about.
Yeah I thought that was pretty funny.
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Originally Posted by
Quaoarsking
I'm not going to call a coach who won a national title for us (and one where we were a national seed and great all season, not one with a few fluky good weeks at the end) a bad hire. Clearly something has changed and he's lost whatever he had in his first 3 years here.
This and it's sad.
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