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Thread: Lemonis was never prepared for this

  1. #21
    Senior Member KB21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BHildreth3 View Post
    Cannazario had a lot to do with our NC.
    He had some to do with it, but if you look at that team, something like 11 players were recruited by Lemonis, 9 by Cannizaro, and 7 by Cohen.
    #AirRaidForever!!#SwingYourSword!!#FireArnett

  2. #22
    Member raymonddawg's Avatar
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    My thing is.. by all media sites rankings this is a very talented team. the freshman class and also the transfer classes were top 5 nationally and have seemed to be every year. Where is that talent? I can see it in the hitters but where are all the guys that are so highly regarded on the mound? Is it the coaching staff's fault for not developing guys into SEC level players or are is everyone just missing on talent evaluations?

    I don't think Lemonis is a bad coach and I honestly don't think anyone else would do much better with our current roster. The entire pitching staff being non-competitive is just killing us.

  3. #23
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymonddawg View Post
    My thing is.. by all media sites rankings this is a very talented team. the freshman class and also the transfer classes were top 5 nationally and have seemed to be every year. Where is that talent? I can see it in the hitters but where are all the guys that are so highly regarded on the mound? Is it the coaching staff's fault for not developing guys into SEC level players or are is everyone just missing on talent evaluations?

    I don't think Lemonis is a bad coach and I honestly don't think anyone else would do much better with our current roster. The entire pitching staff being non-competitive is just killing us.
    If the team has no talent, it's lemonis' fault. Either way, it's lemonis

  4. #24
    Senior Member KB21's Avatar
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    It's not a talent issue. Particularly on the mound, we have enough of a sample size to notice a trend. We are not advancing pitchers in their development.
    #AirRaidForever!!#SwingYourSword!!#FireArnett

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Yeah I thought that was pretty funny.
    It is crazy how they tote the line and don't call out Cohen.
    But then again the 247 site was led by Rosebowl who made sure every Auburn sports board knew he "was good friends with John".

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Good way to put it.

    He's not going to meddle with his assistants and a lot of times that is the way to go. And honestly not always a bad thing.

    But there are times where he needs to be the big dog and step in- and that is Lemonis's biggest fault right now.
    Lemonis is a good manager, imo.

    He and foxhall obviously struggle with evaluating and developing pitchers though.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    This and it's sad.
    Something to consider is that the Quest for the Championship was a driver and a chip on the shoulder of every MSU Baseball Player, Fan, and Coach. It made all MSU players better, I am thinking about cats like Elijah MacNamee and Hunter Stovall.

    Once that Championship was attained, maybe it took the focus and drive away from the entire program. Basically the plot of Rocky III. The next coach needs to be Carl Weathers-Like, bring back the Chip-on-the-Shoulder. Level up and be like Oklahoma and Notre Dame, that don't have parades for every piece of hardware they might win.

    Was it just me, I was tired of talking about 1985. That was played out. MSU fans sounded like Al Bundy, talking about his touchdown in High School. "Gene's Ankle", "Miami's Tomahawk HR", and "Thigpen's arm in right field". We were like Chicago Bears fans, correcting everybody about the best team of all time, the 1986 Bears - when everybody would then ask, "Just one sorry Super Bowl against the Pats?"

    To be totally self aware, I never mentioned 1985 to friends from places U of Arizona, U of Oklahoma, Duke, and Notre Dame. "So, you didn't win anything? You made a Final-4 and lost?"

  8. #28
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    I just don?t think you win a national title in baseball by accident. I realize he inherited a strong roster, but the 2021 team had some flaws that we absolutely had to work around. Bednar and Sims were great, but we didn?t have any other starters that could get us 5 innings by the time the Super Regional rolled around. Even Harding, as clutch as he was, was really more of a 3-4 inning guy. TA and Rowdey were stars, but the rest of that lineup was frankly just OK. LoTan was a good hitter and other guys had their moment?s but let?s not act like we had some murderer?s row. We started Brayland Skinner, Scotty Dubrule, and Lane Forsythe in our championship clinching game. I like those guys but no one would mistake any one of them for a great hitter.

    Lemonis WAS a very good coach for us. I will always believe that. He was aided by his team?s talent, sure, but the guy made some really strong moves as a manager his first few years. It makes this cataclysmic fall from grace all the more surprising to me. I thought we may take a step back for a year or two after 2021. No one could have foreseen this kind of collapse. And I feel like it is revisionist?s history to suggest that he was never any good to begin with. That is simply not an accurate depiction of his first three years at all.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Butch is a Head coach who has taken his own teams to the CWS. He would be a great hire but we will see how that shakes out. I would imagine Cohen won't let him go easy.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Falcon View Post
    I just don?t think you win a national title in baseball by accident. I realize he inherited a strong roster, but the 2021 team had some flaws that we absolutely had to work around. Bednar and Sims were great, but we didn?t have any other starters that could get us 5 innings by the time the Super Regional rolled around. Even Harding, as clutch as he was, was really more of a 3-4 inning guy. TA and Rowdey were stars, but the rest of that lineup was frankly just OK. LoTan was a good hitter and other guys had their moment?s but let?s not act like we had some murderer?s row. We started Brayland Skinner, Scotty Dubrule, and Lane Forsythe in our championship clinching game. I like those guys but no one would mistake any one of them for a great hitter.

    Lemonis WAS a very good coach for us. I will always believe that. He was aided by his team?s talent, sure, but the guy made some really strong moves as a manager his first few years. It makes this cataclysmic fall from grace all the more surprising to me. I thought we may take a step back for a year or two after 2021. No one could have foreseen this kind of collapse. And I feel like it is revisionist?s history to suggest that he was never any good to begin with. That is simply not an accurate depiction of his first three years at all.
    This. Chris pushed all the right buttons and ended up winning the whole damn thing. The one thing that I see that I consider a trend is pitching development, or the lack thereof. Why could we not get anything out of a guy with the stuff Eric Cerantola had? Why was Christian MacLeod an absolute stud in 2020 but completely fell off the wagon in 2021? Why hasn't KC Hunt advanced his career? Cade Smith has fallen off this year, though he is injured.
    #AirRaidForever!!#SwingYourSword!!#FireArnett

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    Butch is a Head coach who has taken his own teams to the CWS. He would be a great hire but we will see how that shakes out. I would imagine Cohen won't let him go easy.
    True but baseball is the least followed sport at Aub. Cohen got football to fix and get basketball back near the top. Baseball is an afterthought at Aub. Just look at their stadium and where it is - not a priority.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    True but baseball is the least followed sport at Aub. Cohen got football to fix and get basketball back near the top. Baseball is an afterthought at Aub. Just look at their stadium and where it is - not a priority.
    Some MSU fans don't understand that there's only 4-5 programs that really care about baseball, LSU, MSU, OM, Ark and Vandy, and Vandy is questionable as they have no fan support. Understanding this enforces the point of how much Polk underachieved.

  13. #33
    Senior Member TNDawg35's Avatar
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    What if we were to go out and get him a new Pitching and Hitting coach. I mean we have talent and have really good talent committed… I have never like Gotro. We seem to have way too many games where the hitting is just gone…

    We are ALL in agreement Foxhall is gone at the end of the season. I wish it would happen now, but it won’t.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Falcon View Post
    I just don?t think you win a national title in baseball by accident. I realize he inherited a strong roster, but the 2021 team had some flaws that we absolutely had to work around. Bednar and Sims were great, but we didn?t have any other starters that could get us 5 innings by the time the Super Regional rolled around. Even Harding, as clutch as he was, was really more of a 3-4 inning guy. TA and Rowdey were stars, but the rest of that lineup was frankly just OK. LoTan was a good hitter and other guys had their moment?s but let?s not act like we had some murderer?s row. We started Brayland Skinner, Scotty Dubrule, and Lane Forsythe in our championship clinching game. I like those guys but no one would mistake any one of them for a great hitter.

    Lemonis WAS a very good coach for us. I will always believe that. He was aided by his team?s talent, sure, but the guy made some really strong moves as a manager his first few years. It makes this cataclysmic fall from grace all the more surprising to me. I thought we may take a step back for a year or two after 2021. No one could have foreseen this kind of collapse. And I feel like it is revisionist?s history to suggest that he was never any good to begin with. That is simply not an accurate depiction of his first three years at all.
    This is a very good post. Accurate. This team didn't have near the talent level that some of Polks teams had yet Lemonis managed to get us the natty that always escaped Coach Polk(and no knock on Coach Polk because I really love the guy). It wasn't luck, it was very good management of the pieces he had.

  15. #35
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    We've identified, sighed, and developed some offensive guys. Although the defense is lacking.

    The real problem though is evaluating pitchers who can play at this level and developing pitchers. Give us the 2021 staff and we're okay.

  16. #36
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNDawg35 View Post
    What if we were to go out and get him a new Pitching and Hitting coach. I mean we have talent and have really good talent committed? I have never like Gotro. We seem to have way too many games where the hitting is just gone?

    We are ALL in agreement Foxhall is gone at the end of the season. I wish it would happen now, but it won?t.
    Are we really entertaining bringing Lemonis back? He is responsible for the assistants as well. This is the coaching equivalent of accidentally messing up your numbers as an accountant and destroying the company. No matter what has happened before, he has to go now.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    This is a very good post. Accurate. This team didn't have near the talent level that some of Polks teams had yet Lemonis managed to get us the natty that always escaped Coach Polk(and no knock on Coach Polk because I really love the guy). It wasn't luck, it was very good management of the pieces he had.
    Agreed. I posted above, he can manage. The fatal flaw has been evaluating and developing pitching.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Agreed. I posted above, he can manage. The fatal flaw has been evaluating and developing pitching.
    Yep.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Agreed. I posted above, he can manage. The fatal flaw has been evaluating and developing pitching.
    Well, Meatloaf sings, "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad". This is only one of three. It's bad.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Falcon View Post
    I just don?t think you win a national title in baseball by accident. I realize he inherited a strong roster, but the 2021 team had some flaws that we absolutely had to work around. Bednar and Sims were great, but we didn?t have any other starters that could get us 5 innings by the time the Super Regional rolled around. Even Harding, as clutch as he was, was really more of a 3-4 inning guy. TA and Rowdey were stars, but the rest of that lineup was frankly just OK. LoTan was a good hitter and other guys had their moment?s but let?s not act like we had some murderer?s row. We started Brayland Skinner, Scotty Dubrule, and Lane Forsythe in our championship clinching game. I like those guys but no one would mistake any one of them for a great hitter.

    Lemonis WAS a very good coach for us. I will always believe that. He was aided by his team?s talent, sure, but the guy made some really strong moves as a manager his first few years. It makes this cataclysmic fall from grace all the more surprising to me. I thought we may take a step back for a year or two after 2021. No one could have foreseen this kind of collapse. And I feel like it is revisionist?s history to suggest that he was never any good to begin with. That is simply not an accurate depiction of his first three years at all.
    Not luck at all.

    Lucky Championship = You skid into Hoover with a 14-16 record, You win a bunch rain-out games in a Miami regional, You play a Buddikha Alabama team in Omaha Game-1, Your top-seed is Arkansas (Omaha Choke Arists), You play a limited cinderella team (Oklahoma for Example) in the Final.

    MSU won 20 SEC games. Won a National Seed. Had a Super Hot Notre Dame to beat, Had Texas in the Omaha Bracket, Had a Super Hot Virginia to Beat, Then COVID knee-capped the Limited team (NCSU) and MSU had to play a National Powerhouse (Vandy)

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