Basketball program destroyed - long 11 years

[R2Dawg]

In hindsight, firing Stans was a pretty big mistake

Agree, I think most agree firing Stans without a competent hire was stupid. Yes changes needed to be made if Stans stayed and maybe Stans thought he was bigger than loafers and the ego was the issue.

I think Stans could have recovered in a few years but sometimes it is time for a change.

People can say what they want but outside of 2 good Richard Williams years (of which Stans contributed), the Stans era is the best MSU basketball since Bailey Howell in 60s.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Sure, i get that, but looking back - and your choice was keeping Stans or suffering through just Rick Ray - you would still pick firing Stans?

I mean at some point, your love of MSU has to eclipse the anger towards Stans. I mean for me, I really don't care who the coach is, I just want to watch us play meaningful basketball games in February/March. We did that all the time with Stans, not so much the last 11 years.

We played just as many meaningful games in February/March under Howland as we did under Rick and won about the same amount. Just like with Stansbury, we lost any game that actually mattered, won most of the games we were supposed to, and had head scratching losses.

I don't hate Rick. He did a fine job in his 15+ years. We made the tournament 6 times, which is fine, and we won some meaningless division championships. But we never made it past the first weekend. He also coached in an era where on average 4 of the other 6 division teams were complete and utter dogs***. Auburn didn't even know the had a basketball program, Ole Miss' ceiling leaked, and Arkansas, Alabama, and LSU all had like one or two good years in that stretch. The East dominated every year.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Agree, I think most agree firing Stans without a competent hire was stupid. Yes changes needed to be made if Stans stayed and maybe Stans thought he was bigger than loafers and the ego was the issue.

I think Stans could have recovered in a few years but sometimes it is time for a change.

People can say what they want but outside of 2 good Richard Williams years (of which Stans contributed), the Stans era is the best MSU basketball since Bailey Howell in 60s.

Ego wasn't the issue. He had lost control of the program and Bailey Howell walked into Stricklin's office and said fire Stansbury or me and some others are pulling all our money from basketball until a change is made.

[Coach34]

People can say what they want but outside of 2 good Richard Williams years (of which Stans contributed), the Stans era is the best MSU basketball since Bailey Howell in 60s.

Williams had 3 really good years- 91, 95, 96 and a couple of NIT seasons. He took over a program that had lost to Delta State. While the 1991 team was Stands 1st year as a asst- that team had been built by Reboul and Brady years prior. Stands took over an NCAA Tourney ready team and underachieved in Y1. But he certainly grew into the job

Williams/Stands is like comparing Jackie/Mullen

Williams/Jackie took us to higher highs during their tenure. SEC title Game/Final Four etc but Mullen/Stands brought consistency.

[R2Dawg]

Ego wasn't the issue. He had lost control of the program and Bailey Howell walked into Stricklin's office and said fire Stansbury or me and some others are pulling all our money from basketball until a change is made.

Yes I understand the issues then of losing control of program.

Where is all that support now from Howell and boys? It ain't there. Winning takes care of needed support. Firing Stans and nuking the program did nothing. There is no support now.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yes I understand the issues then of losing control of program.

Where is all that support now from Howell and boys? It ain't there. Winning takes care of needed support. Firing Stans and nuking the program did nothing. There is no support now.

It was there under Howland and it's there now. Just cause they aren't in the seats doesn't mean they aren't stroking the checks. Richard Adkerson isn't able to come to a lot of the midweek games but he's given more money in one year JUST to the basketball program than the members of this board have given in a lifetime.

Richard cut two different 7 figure checks so that we could complete renovations on The Hump. He stroked a mid 7 figure check the first time and stroked another one in about February of 22 because we were short a few million

[Rawdawg]

Firing Stans was the right thing to do for the better of the program and the image of the university.

Hiring Ray was a mistake obviously but it?s not Ray?s fault he was hired. However there were things that transpired during that coaching search that put MSU in the position it was in that led to the hiring of Ray, a lot of it our own fault. Some coaches and agents black balled us. Some of our administration panicked and didn?t listen to some of our more prominent boosters. Things happened that we made mistakes on.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Firing Stans was the right thing to do for the better of the program and the image of the university.

Hiring Ray was a mistake obviously but it?s not Ray?s fault he was hired. However there were things that transpired during that coaching search that put MSU in the position it was in that led to the hiring of Ray, a lot of it our own fault. Some coaches and agents black balled us. Some of our administration panicked and didn?t listen to some of our more prominent boosters. Things happened that we made mistakes on.

100% FACT.

[Coach34]

100% FACT.

Yes- the Cheerleader and the Politician did a horrible job during the search

[basedog]

Agree, I think most agree firing Stans without a competent hire was stupid. Yes changes needed to be made if Stans stayed and maybe Stans thought he was bigger than loafers and the ego was the issue.

I think Stans could have recovered in a few years but sometimes it is time for a change.

People can say what they want but outside of 2 good Richard Williams years (of which Stans contributed), the Stans era is the best MSU basketball since Bailey Howell in 60s.

Yes

[EdwardDrayton]

It was the right move to fire Stansbury and it was his own fault he got fired.

See, we can say that just as many times as y'all who want to keep saying it was wrong.

How many years y'all wanna dance this jig?!!? Bottom line he got fired so let it go.

[HoopsDawg]

It was there under Howland and it's there now. Just cause they aren't in the seats doesn't mean they aren't stroking the checks. Richard Adkerson isn't able to come to a lot of the midweek games but he's given more money in one year JUST to the basketball program than the members of this board have given in a lifetime.

Richard cut two different 7 figure checks so that we could complete renovations on The Hump. He stroked a mid 7 figure check the first time and stroked another one in about February of 22 because we were short a few million

Where was the money on Sears, Boum, Appleby, Johnson, Mosely and the other 5-6 transfers we missed on this past offseason.

[HoopsDawg]

Firing Stans was the right thing to do for the better of the program and the image of the university.

Hiring Ray was a mistake obviously but it?s not Ray?s fault he was hired. However there were things that transpired during that coaching search that put MSU in the position it was in that led to the hiring of Ray, a lot of it our own fault. Some coaches and agents black balled us. Some of our administration panicked and didn?t listen to some of our more prominent boosters. Things happened that we made mistakes on.

Please. Some of those boosters wanted Kenny Payne.

[EdwardDrayton]

Where was the money on Sears, Boum, Appleby, Johnson, Mosely and the other 5-6 transfers we missed on this past offseason.

Hoops, do we know for a fact our transfer class was substandard because we did not have enough money? If so, how do we know this? And to be clear, we're saying we bought transfers we could afford?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Where was the money on Sears, Boum, Appleby, Johnson, Mosely and the other 5-6 transfers we missed on this past offseason.

Sears wanted to play for Oats and Bama. He's from Muscle Shoals so that one wasn't hard to figure out.

Johnson, I assume you're talking about Keontae, couldn't get into grad school here.

Our money was there on Mosely. Missouri offered him a house. We just got outbid.

Don't know who the other two are, but regardless these guys are stroking 6 and 7 figure checks almost every year. To then expect them to turn around and stroke 6 and 7 figure NIL checks is not doable. Outside of Richard, who was the one they hit up for every one of those transfers, we don't have that kind of alumni wealth. Our average fans have to up their giving in NIL. We can't expect our top 10-15 donors who consistently bail us out in facilities funding to also be the ones bailing us out in NIL as well.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Please. Some of those boosters wanted Kenny Payne.

And Kenny Payne and World Wide Wes were two of the people that black balled us. And since I doubt you know who World Wide Wes is he's William Wesley. EVP for the Knicks now. He was a super agent for CAA and was close personal friends with Kenny Payne and Calipari.

[HoopsDawg]

Hoops, do we know for a fact our transfer class was substandard because we did not have enough money? If so, how do we know this? And to be clear, we're saying we bought transfers we could afford?

I'm saying we targeted and missed on at least 5-6 transfers that would have made a huge difference this season. Whatever the reason this happened, we didn't get it done.

When a name got floated under Howland or Stans, 9 times out of 10 we closed. I have no idea how we didn't close on Hubbard so add him to the list. He visited multiple times.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'm saying we targeted and missed on at least 5-6 transfers that would have made a huge difference this season. Whatever the reason this happened, we didn't get it done.

When a name got floated under Howland or Stans, 9 times out of 10 we closed. I have no idea how we didn't close on Hubbard so add him to the list. He visited multiple times.

I've talked to Richard Duease on that multiple times, he had comfortability with Kermit and that staff. He liked our staff, but was more comfortable with theirs because of the relationship they built with him. It's simple as that. George hasn't stopped recruiting him though. When they make the move on Kermit I would expect Hubbard will end up at State.

[EdwardDrayton]

Sears wanted to play for Oats and Bama. He's from Muscle Shoals so that one wasn't hard to figure out.

Johnson, I assume you're talking about Keontae, couldn't get into grad school here.

Our money was there on Mosely. Missouri offered him a house. We just got outbid.

Don't know who the other two are, but regardless these guys are stroking 6 and 7 figure checks almost every year. To then expect them to turn around and stroke 6 and 7 figure NIL checks is not doable. Outside of Richard, who was the one they hit up for every one of those transfers, we don't have that kind of alumni wealth. Our average fans have to up their giving in NIL. We can't expect our top 10-15 donors who consistently bail us out in facilities funding to also be the ones bailing us out in NIL as well.

I'm not giving much but if a lot of folks are like me, we're not giving any more into a black hole without some transparency. How much has been collected, where is it going and how much are we short? Blindly giving money is not something any of us considers wise.

[Ari Gold]

Where was the money on Sears, Boum, Appleby, Johnson, Mosely and the other 5-6 transfers we missed on this past offseason.

Bama finished number 2 in the money offer for Sears we finished 3rd.
Texas was highest bidder
When Janz was hired we had and may still have a worse situation with basketball NIL than the College of Charleston.. and that’s a fact

And you guys do know we had tolu , dj and Shaq Moore were all in the portal at one time .. can you imagine the program if those 3 had gone elsewhere ..

Janz was a homer in hire as a Coach. We will see if he can get the players here he needs..