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Thread: The Air Raid offense sucks and no one wants to run it.

  1. #21
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Some of y'all need to decide on an offensive philosophy you want to see and stick with it. Y'all wanted us to throw more under Dan and Joe so we brought Leach on board and now those same people want to go back to the power spread. The exact quotes I heard were "we have to be different to win big". And now y'all want to go back to the offense you said would never take the next step.

    It doesn't matter what philosophy we're running if your QB can't stretch the ball down the field. Tennessee's offense works not because the scheme is that much better, hell it's ours scheme. But when you have QB's with bazookas for arms you can take deep shots and it opens everything up. That's why we recruited Costello. Even though it didn't work out the guy had a bazooka for an arm. He had the ability to stretch the field. Most plays we run have someone on a deep route but when your QB is 40 year old Drew Brees who can't stretch the field you can't throw those routes so teams don't honor it. Which clogs everything up short. As I've said many times, I'm not advocating for replacing Will just to replace him. But you're gonna have to take a chance on bringing in a transfer and letting him battle.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    Some of y'all need to decide on an offensive philosophy you want to see and stick with it. Y'all wanted us to throw more under Dan and Joe so we brought Leach on board and now those same people want to go back to the power spread. The exact quotes I heard were "we have to be different to win big". And now y'all want to go back to the offense you said would never take the next step.

    It doesn't matter what philosophy we're running if your QB can't stretch the ball down the field. Tennessee's offense works not because the scheme is that much better, hell it's ours scheme. But when you have QB's with bazookas for arms you can take deep shots and it opens everything up. That's why we recruited Costello. Even though it didn't work out the guy had a bazooka for an arm. He had the ability to stretch the field. Most plays we run have someone on a deep route but when your QB is 40 year old Drew Brees who can't stretch the field you can't throw those routes so teams don't honor it. Which clogs everything up short. As I've said many times, I'm not advocating for replacing Will just to replace him. But you're gonna have to take a chance on bringing in a transfer and letting him battle.
    100%

  3. #23
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    Some of y'all need to decide on an offensive philosophy you want to see and stick with it. Y'all wanted us to throw more under Dan and Joe so we brought Leach on board and now those same people want to go back to the power spread. The exact quotes I heard were "we have to be different to win big". And now y'all want to go back to the offense you said would never take the next step.

    It doesn't matter what philosophy we're running if your QB can't stretch the ball down the field. Tennessee's offense works not because the scheme is that much better, hell it's ours scheme. But when you have QB's with bazookas for arms you can take deep shots and it opens everything up. That's why we recruited Costello. Even though it didn't work out the guy had a bazooka for an arm. He had the ability to stretch the field. Most plays we run have someone on a deep route but when your QB is 40 year old Drew Brees who can't stretch the field you can't throw those routes so teams don't honor it. Which clogs everything up short. As I've said many times, I'm not advocating for replacing Will just to replace him. But you're gonna have to take a chance on bringing in a transfer and letting him battle.
    Not sure who you referring to, but I never wanted to throw 80% of the time. If you aren't using a dual threat qb these days, you better have a great qb and great WRs.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    Some of y'all need to decide on an offensive philosophy you want to see and stick with it. Y'all wanted us to throw more under Dan and Joe so we brought Leach on board and now those same people want to go back to the power spread. The exact quotes I heard were "we have to be different to win big". And now y'all want to go back to the offense you said would never take the next step.

    It doesn't matter what philosophy we're running if your QB can't stretch the ball down the field. Tennessee's offense works not because the scheme is that much better, hell it's ours scheme. But when you have QB's with bazookas for arms you can take deep shots and it opens everything up. That's why we recruited Costello. Even though it didn't work out the guy had a bazooka for an arm. He had the ability to stretch the field. Most plays we run have someone on a deep route but when your QB is 40 year old Drew Brees who can't stretch the field you can't throw those routes so teams don't honor it. Which clogs everything up short. As I've said many times, I'm not advocating for replacing Will just to replace him. But you're gonna have to take a chance on bringing in a transfer and letting him battle.
    Throw more is not more throw only. More balance is what most have been asking for for 40 years. The run is the base, if you can't run, you can't win big. We were a lucky kick away from 7-6 this year.

    We only wanted Dan to throw downfield more, well we have the same problem now but less check down plays to defend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    The air raid we ran was trash. That's facts.

    The Heupel version is solid. We weren't in the same stratosphere as that version. The Heupel air raid is like a fighter jet, and ours was like a fart in a whirlwind.
    Swap the two qb and what happens.
    We had wr running wide open downfield vs Illinois. But will has a D2 arm. Accurate, but no arm.

    That said, I would like to be able to run it better.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Even though I think tcu is basically the result of hitting a 7-team parlay this year, they should be the one we look at the closest since they're around our talent level. They were 55.5% run heavy. And it wasn't bc they were winning all the time... 9 wins by less than 10 pts
    How much of TCU's run game was done by their QB? Because the games I've watched here lately of them, his legs have been a MAJOR factor. If our next OC doesn't want a mobile QB that can be a weapon with his legs in addition to his arm, then I don't want that OC. It is vital in this day and age to have a QB that can pick up a crucial first down in a big game when nobody is open and the pocket breaks down on 3rd and 6. I feel like the days of the statue QB are gone and never coming back

  7. #27
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    Throw more is not more throw only. More balance is what most have been asking for for 40 years. The run is the base, if you can't run, you can't win big. We were a lucky kick away from 7-6 this year.

    We only wanted Dan to throw downfield more, well we have the same problem now but less check down plays to defend.
    No our problem is now we have a QB who can't push the ball down the field. With Dan we had that, but we had a coach who didn't want to do it. Now, we have the offense to do it, but a QB who for whatever reason, my guess is arm strength, won't push the ball down the field.

  8. #28
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    Some of y'all need to decide on an offensive philosophy you want to see and stick with it. Y'all wanted us to throw more under Dan and Joe so we brought Leach on board and now those same people want to go back to the power spread. The exact quotes I heard were "we have to be different to win big". And now y'all want to go back to the offense you said would never take the next step.

    It doesn't matter what philosophy we're running if your QB can't stretch the ball down the field. Tennessee's offense works not because the scheme is that much better, hell it's ours scheme. But when you have QB's with bazookas for arms you can take deep shots and it opens everything up. That's why we recruited Costello. Even though it didn't work out the guy had a bazooka for an arm. He had the ability to stretch the field. Most plays we run have someone on a deep route but when your QB is 40 year old Drew Brees who can't stretch the field you can't throw those routes so teams don't honor it. Which clogs everything up short. As I've said many times, I'm not advocating for replacing Will just to replace him. But you're gonna have to take a chance on bringing in a transfer and letting him battle.
    I agree we have to have a big arm at QB, but we also have to have some mobility back there as well. I'd argue Will's lack of mobility was damn near as detrimental to our success as his weak arm.

    I want there to be more balance. I don't mind leaning towards the pass, or even using a modern air raid...but a modern air raid must have a QB with arm strength and the ability to run as an added threat when spreading the field.

    We will never have the talent to line up and run it down people's throats. But we must have some ground game or we're too easy to defend. That's why I feel like the QB running is so crucial. Our run game is good enough in the offense we ran this year IF IF the QB had been able to be a part of it. If Rogers had a bigger arm and could run, teams would have to respect him on the read option in fear he may keep it...and they also wouldn't have as many men near the line in fear of him throwing deep. Those two things would have added so much to our offense and ground attack.

    As of now, our offense is defended by keying on 2 things....

    1. Short passes within 15 yards
    2. Direct handoffs to RB's

    That is too damn easy.

    Add a bigger arm and just a little mobility to the QB, and suddenly you have this to defend....

    1. Short passing game
    2. Deep passing game
    3. Running back handoff
    4. QB keeper on the read option
    5. QB scramble when coverage is good

    Adding a deep game, and a QB threat to run is 1000% the only thing that held us back.

  9. #29
    Senior Member yjnkdawg's Avatar
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    I don't care whether it is a 60-40 passing offense, 60-40 run offense, or whatever. Percentages don't mean anything in a specific game . Let's get an OC who hopefully will adjust and take what the defense will give us and we can pass or run effectively, and score points.
    Last edited by yjnkdawg; 01-08-2023 at 12:00 PM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    I agree we have to have a big arm at QB, but we also have to have some mobility back there as well. I'd argue Will's lack of mobility was damn near as detrimental to our success as his weak arm.

    I want there to be more balance. I don't mind leaning towards the pass, or even using a modern air raid...but a modern air raid must have a QB with arm strength and the ability to run as an added threat when spreading the field.

    We will never have the talent to line up and run it down people's throats. But we must have some ground game or we're too easy to defend. That's why I feel like the QB running is so crucial. Our run game is good enough in the offense we ran this year IF IF the QB had been able to be a part of it. If Rogers had a bigger arm and could run, teams would have to respect him on the read option in fear he may keep it...and they also wouldn't have as many men near the line in fear of him throwing deep. Those two things would have added so much to our offense and ground attack.

    As of now, our offense is defended by keying on 2 things....

    1. Short passes within 15 yards
    2. Direct handoffs to RB's

    That is too damn easy.

    Add a bigger arm and just a little mobility to the QB, and suddenly you have this to defend....

    1. Short passing game
    2. Deep passing game
    3. Running back handoff
    4. QB keeper on the read option
    5. QB scramble when coverage is good

    Adding a deep game, and a QB threat to run is 1000% the only thing that held us back.
    You're on to something with the mobility. That opens everything up. Underneath routes as well as the over the top. That's why I wonder if a new OC, if we stayed in this Air Raid or some modification of it, would kick the tires on Spencer Sanders. I don't know that he's a better passer than Will, but he's 10x the athlete. You know a guy like Donovan Smith at TTU would've been a dream, but he transferred to Houston to play for Dana.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Not sure who you referring to, but I never wanted to throw 80% of the time. If you aren't using a dual threat qb these days, you better have a great qb and great WRs.
    Yep. Even Leach was moving to run it more and recruiting that.

    Give me air raid +

  12. #32
    Senior Member Lord McBuckethead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    Some of y'all need to decide on an offensive philosophy you want to see and stick with it. Y'all wanted us to throw more under Dan and Joe so we brought Leach on board and now those same people want to go back to the power spread. The exact quotes I heard were "we have to be different to win big". And now y'all want to go back to the offense you said would never take the next step.

    It doesn't matter what philosophy we're running if your QB can't stretch the ball down the field. Tennessee's offense works not because the scheme is that much better, hell it's ours scheme. But when you have QB's with bazookas for arms you can take deep shots and it opens everything up. That's why we recruited Costello. Even though it didn't work out the guy had a bazooka for an arm. He had the ability to stretch the field. Most plays we run have someone on a deep route but when your QB is 40 year old Drew Brees who can't stretch the field you can't throw those routes so teams don't honor it. Which clogs everything up short. As I've said many times, I'm not advocating for replacing Will just to replace him. But you're gonna have to take a chance on bringing in a transfer and letting him battle.
    This is the truest post to have ever been posted on elitedawgs. This has been our problem. Now the only caveat I would add, our OL may not have allowed for too many shots this year against SEC DL.

    Which brings us to the next biggest difference in between our qb play and Tenn, running ability. It would have helped our OL if our QB could scramble if his 1st and 2nd choice were covered. Scramble out looking for the deep shot and pick up yards if nothing is there. Keeps the DL from bullrushing deep in our pocket every single snap.
    Last edited by Lord McBuckethead; 01-08-2023 at 01:19 PM.

  13. #33
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    You're on to something with the mobility. That opens everything up. Underneath routes as well as the over the top. That's why I wonder if a new OC, if we stayed in this Air Raid or some modification of it, would kick the tires on Spencer Sanders. I don't know that he's a better passer than Will, but he's 10x the athlete. You know a guy like Donovan Smith at TTU would've been a dream, but he transferred to Houston to play for Dana.
    Agree, Smith would have been great

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    No our problem is now we have a QB who can't push the ball down the field. With Dan we had that, but we had a coach who didn't want to do it. Now, we have the offense to do it, but a QB who for whatever reason, my guess is arm strength, won't push the ball down the field.
    We've had what one QB who could push ball down field in 20 years? Check down Charlie, remember that with Dan. Going downfield ain't a Will only issue. The old air raid is short passes, death by a thousand cuts if you are perfect enough. That is what it is.

    All you have to do is look at our routes. That mesh crossing pattern, flat screens, RB dump downs, are 80% of our O.

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    Watching the TCU/Okie St replay. Spencer Sanders would have probably made us 2 wins better last season. Why is he transferring?
    Everyone wants to be a beast...until its time to do what beasts do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    I agree we have to have a big arm at QB, but we also have to have some mobility back there as well. I'd argue Will's lack of mobility was damn near as detrimental to our success as his weak arm.

    I want there to be more balance. I don't mind leaning towards the pass, or even using a modern air raid...but a modern air raid must have a QB with arm strength and the ability to run as an added threat when spreading the field.

    We will never have the talent to line up and run it down people's throats. But we must have some ground game or we're too easy to defend. That's why I feel like the QB running is so crucial. Our run game is good enough in the offense we ran this year IF IF the QB had been able to be a part of it. If Rogers had a bigger arm and could run, teams would have to respect him on the read option in fear he may keep it...and they also wouldn't have as many men near the line in fear of him throwing deep. Those two things would have added so much to our offense and ground attack.

    As of now, our offense is defended by keying on 2 things....

    1. Short passes within 15 yards
    2. Direct handoffs to RB's

    That is too damn easy.

    Add a bigger arm and just a little mobility to the QB, and suddenly you have this to defend....

    1. Short passing game
    2. Deep passing game
    3. Running back handoff
    4. QB keeper on the read option
    5. QB scramble when coverage is good

    Adding a deep game, and a QB threat to run is 1000% the only thing that held us back.
    Can’t give you any more rep. And yes, I would like to keep AR concepts but add in a more sophisticated running attack to keep the defense off balance. Will did fairly good but his arm and lack of mobility held the offense back. The threat of QB run is a game changer and we have to recruit that going forward(like Leach was doing).

    Quote Originally Posted by yjnkdawg View Post
    I don't care whether it is a 60-40 passing offense, 60-40 run offense, or whatever. Percentages don't mean anything in a specific game . Let's get an OC who hopefully will adjust and take what the defense will give us and we can pass or run effectively, and score points.
    Yes!! Run the offense but be versatile!!!

  17. #37
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    Even Washington’s QB is keeping drives alive with his legs today. We are missing that big time with our QB

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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    We've had what one QB who could push ball down field in 20 years? Check down Charlie, remember that with Dan. Going downfield ain't a Will only issue. The old air raid is short passes, death by a thousand cuts if you are perfect enough. That is what it is.

    All you have to do is look at our routes. That mesh crossing pattern, flat screens, RB dump downs, are 80% of our O.
    4 verts is an air raid staple and we never run it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    4 verts is an air raid staple and we never run it.
    Ding ding ding.

    Leach said that this was something he would spend a full practice on every 6th practice. That's been the big piece missing from our offense.

  20. #40
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    4 verts is an air raid staple and we never run it.
    Hard to do it when you don't have a QB that can't make that throw. We b****ed about Moorhead trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Leach was just running plays that he knew would work. We ran 4 verts concepts with KJ. Go back and watch the LSU game.

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