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Thread: Been thinking about this Leach situation today...

  1. #41
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    word is already out there this may be it for Leach. This problem may solve itself
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    word is already out there this may be it for Leach. This problem may solve itself
    That doesn't surprise me. MSU is a tough place to coach and he ain't as young as he used to be. Plus, HCs (and others) now have to deal with all the wokeness prevalent in all the high public profile positions at Universities now too. Leach ain't a woke guy.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgday166 View Post
    That doesn't surprise me. MSU is a tough place to coach and he ain't as young as he used to be. Plus, HCs (and others) now have to deal with all the wokeness prevalent in all the high public profile positions at Universities now too. Leach ain't a woke guy.
    And Keenum is? Give me a break...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Since we have several like me that are pretty certain this Air Bone isn't going to work in the SEC, yet many of you think we need to "give it time" (eye roll), I think I may have a proposal....

    Would everyone at least agree that he needs to bring in one of his disciples with a younger and more modern approach as an OC that can create some variations to mix in with Leach's air raid? Since we are unlikely to fire him after 7 wins, and he's unlikely to retire when he can mope around here and make $5 million a year, can we at least force him to hire someone to advance his offense out of the 90's? Maybe even Spurrier Jr could be given the reigns of the offense, something, anything to provide a spark, a variation, an adjustment. We should all agree this offense needs a Red Bull, so how can we do it to make both sides happy?

    I'm all for canning his ass, but I know it ain't happening because we're little ol State that thinks we can't do no better than 7 wins....so there has to be a solution that isn't just sitting here watching us continue to do nothing against teams above .500 as our crowds dwindle, recruiting tanks, and NIL gains nothing.

    Thoughts?
    I don't think it's as much about giving it time, it's just about reality. Leach is doing ok. Not where people want him to be and it's really frustrating that his side of the ball disappears for stretches pretty much every game and often for entire games. Overall, we're treading water with him. Maybe the offense looks different with a QB that can push down the field more, or maybe it doesn't. But firing him at this point won't make our job attractive. We'll have a short leash and limited NIL support along with a roster built for the air raid. Who are we going to get at that point? Not saying there won't be coaches dying to come coach; there will be. I'm just not sure what kind of track record they are going to have.

    If we are going to pay him $10M+ (or whatever his buyout is at this point) to not coach us anymore, we'd probably get much better result asking anybody willing to pony up for a buyout to put that money towards NIL instead.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    word is already out there this may be it for Leach. This problem may solve itself
    If Leach is forced out after going 7-5 at worst in his second full season then who in their right mind would want to come to State?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    And Keenum is? Give me a break...
    I didn't say that did I? What I meant was people in those positions can be crucified over any trivial thing they say or do, so they have to be very careful. And a big deal can be made about something to the point that the University has no choice but to reprimand or fire someone

    Just like you bowing up just now on an trivial, harmless comment.

    ETA: And even if Keenum ain't woke either, he is more smooth with statements and politically.
    Last edited by dawgday166; 11-14-2022 at 12:37 PM.

  7. #47
    Senior Member DownwardDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt3467 View Post
    If Leach is forced out after going 7-5 at worst in his second full season then who in their right mind would want to come to State?
    It's not a "force out". It's what a lot of us hoped might happen.
    Leach is not going to coddle these players. Times have changed. I can see him saying screw it and chillin with his family.

    Oh, and for 5 million or more a year???? There will be a line of coaches wanting to show how much better they are than Leach, Mullen, etc......
    This is head coaches we're talking.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt3467 View Post
    If Leach is forced out after going 7-5 at worst in his second full season then who in their right mind would want to come to State?
    There is a rumor that Leach is sick and going to retire for health reasons.

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    Some of you act like we've been a powerhouse in the SEC for the last 1/2 century and anything less than 10-2 season is a failure. Fact is we've been at the bottom of the SEC for a majority of those years. We aren't Alabama/LSU/Georgia. Some of you let Ole Miss get into your heads. I knew when they hired Lane it would be just a stepping stone job for him. Let it play out this year and we'll see how they handle players transferring and having to rebuild their roster.

    It's taken time at every stop for Leach to get things going. Year 1 was COVID and that screwed up everything. Then we had players not buying in and quitting/transferring out. In reality Leach is in year 2. We've all seen Leach try to run it more this year, but also realize both our #1 and #2 RBs have been beat up. The fact Leach went after Chis Parson means he knows a running QB will add that extra spark we need on offense. Unfortunately Will isn't a running QB, but he knows the offense and can be accurate. Receivers need to catch the ball too. Mullen could hardly recruit receivers that were 1/2 as reliable as ours now.

    Now throw in NIL and how that affects recruiting. We aren't going to get those difference makers if they're offered more $$$$ at another school. The NIL is the wild West right now with hardly any rules. We just don't have the funds/fan support/population to compete against larger schools. For perspective the University of South FL has 50K students. We're at what 20-25K if that now. NIL has drastically affected how you recruit players now. It's also going to affect what coaches we're able to hire. If they don't have NIL money to play with they know the road will be tougher for them getting players. Smaller schools like ours need to start pushing for NIL deal caps to even the playing field.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgday166 View Post
    As an AD or University President or whatever, you don't hire a football coach, especially one with Leach's track record, and start telling him how to coach or what assistants he needs to add or subtract. You don't tell him who to play or not play. All of that remains to sole responsibility of message board posters who are all experts and brilliant football analysts/coaches in their own right.. **

    As an AD, that job/position is to try to provide the resources and support he needs to be successful. Now if things appear bad, then the guy in the AD position can inquire or make suggestions maybe. And the AD certainly can set timetables for righting the ship, if it seems to be floundering. And if I'm AD, I'm certainly conveying to Leach the pressure coming from The President, Big Boosters, etc. ... but most importantly the pressure coming from the big dog message board posters **

    I can just see someone going to Saban and telling him how to run his program. They might make suggestions, but Saban will make the decisions. Kirby will too. And so will Leach. Honestly, any coach worth his salt will. They're gonna sink or swim with their own decisions. Doesn't mean conversations around how to get things on track won't happen, but someone like Leach ain't gonna change too much about how he manages and/or organizes all of his personnel ... coaches, players, or whatnot. He will change things only if he thinks ideas or suggestions are better options and worth trying, regardless of where the ideas come from.

    Conversations like this are pretty much pointless IMO. If I hire a very successful person in any field, I'm gonna give them the autonomy to do it their way. That's why I hired them to begin with. My job is to help them with what they need to do the job the way they would like to do it. Which is a conversation that should've occurred during the hiring process.
    Best post you have ever made.

    This is about what can be built at MSU by Leach which will take up to five years not counting 2020. If that doesn't take place nothing will ever be built. IMHO

  11. #51
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt3467 View Post
    If Leach is forced out after going 7-5 at worst in his second full season then who in their right mind would want to come to State?
    not forcing him out. Him deciding it's time to head to Key West for good on his own...we'll see how it plays out
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  12. #52
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Guys, more and more I'm convinced it comes down to $$$$. Plain and simple.
    This is all relative to '21 (latest data available, Vandy doesn't report $): https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/sec
    MSU Football Spending: $22.9m SEC Median: $36m MSU is dead last in football budget. Next lowest is Mizzou at $24m. OM was spending $38.3m - good for 3rd in the SEC in '21
    MSU Spending on Coaches: $10.1m SEC Median: $11.4m MSU was only ahead of Mizzou and Arkansas.

    The only way that changes is if we give more. More to the University. More to the Bulldog Club. More to the Bulldog Initiative.
    Last edited by BrunswickDawg; 11-14-2022 at 01:59 PM.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownwardDawg View Post
    It's not a "force out". It's what a lot of us hoped might happen.
    Leach is not going to coddle these players. Times have changed. I can see him saying screw it and chillin with his family.

    Oh, and for 5 million or more a year???? There will be a line of coaches wanting to show how much better they are than Leach, Mullen, etc......
    This is head coaches we're talking.
    Anyone on this board would take the HC job for that pay I just meant that when it comes to an actual established/proven coach they may see that (along with our previous coach of 2 years) as not something they want to uproot their lives for.

    Edit: but if he leaves for other reasons such as some have mentioned that'd be different I'm just basing it off those that say if he doesn't beat OM he'll be fired.
    Last edited by Matt3467; 11-14-2022 at 02:08 PM.

  14. #54
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percho View Post
    Best post you have ever made.

    This is about what can be built at MSU by Leach which will take up to five years not counting 2020. If that doesn't take place nothing will ever be built. IMHO
    Y'all stop with the five years bullshit. Croom was saying that too. Dan was one blown call and a leprechaun away from going 7-5 his first year as a head coach in the SEC.

    This year's team is more talented than most of Leach's Tech teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrapGame View Post
    Y'all stop with the five years bullshit. Croom was saying that too. Dan was one blown call and a leprechaun away from going 7-5 his first year as a head coach in the SEC.

    This year's team is more talented than most of Leach's Tech teams.
    Not at QB. Personally, I'd give Leach one more year to show me something. Unless he wins out from here, then he'd be off the hot seat for now.

    ETA: Then he would've only lost the KY game which I consider to be a somewhat bad loss.

  16. #56
    Senior Member DownwardDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt3467 View Post
    Anyone on this board would take the HC job for that pay I just meant that when it comes to an actual established/proven coach they may see that (along with our previous coach of 2 years) as not something they want to uproot their lives for.

    Edit: but if he leaves for other reasons such as some have mentioned that'd be different I'm just basing it off those that say if he doesn't beat OM he'll be fired.
    Yeah. I don't believe for a second he'll be fired at 7-5. Ain't happening.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrapGame View Post
    Y'all stop with the five years bullshit. Croom was saying that too. Dan was one blown call and a leprechaun away from going 7-5 his first year as a head coach in the SEC.

    This year's team is more talented than most of Leach's Tech teams.
    It doesn't take a minimum of 5 years, but just because somebody hasn't peaked in 3 years doesn't mean it's time to burn it down. I'm not expecting Leach to make a jump. I think this is basically the peak and we'll probably have the same record next year with an easier schedule because our D is going to take a good step back. But I don't think it's hopeless and I don't think we burn $15M right now to hope we can upgrade.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    It's excellent. You and I actually agree that Egg Bowls are more important than the average game but still not the sole arbiter of whether a coach keeps his job
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    not forcing him out. Him deciding it's time to head to Key West for good on his own...we'll see how it plays out
    He needs to do it early enough that we can hire Freeze or Primetime lol.

  19. #59
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    word is already out there this may be it for Leach. This problem may solve itself
    You know they ain't making a move unless they've got a couple of coaches ready to interview.

    So, what are you hearing? Spill.

  20. #60
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    I do too DD.......He's a great representative for the university but athletically he's just not gifted enough with arm strength to push the ball down the field or get out of the pocket and pick up yards.
    "The QB and the receiver weren't on the same page there, but hey its only week eleven". (Jack Cristil)

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