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Thread: So we have two choices....

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    Some rose colored glasses looking back at Mullen.

    His recruiting was lazy and it gave us 0 chance to compete at a high level. His offense was only balanced under Dak, and he failed to turn that success into real QB talent (Fitz was a great runner but an awful QB overall). He could not keep a DC and the turnover capped our defensive potential. He had the WORST WR room in the SEC most years. He kept got awful assistants and we called them the "Country Club". That also capped our potential. He clammed up in big games, capping our potential.

    Ultimately, Dan averaged like 7 wins a year. He had 1 good season and we went 10-3, loosing handily to Bama.

    I do not understand how so many here are infatuated with him. He did not win big, and his recruiting/poor assistants/high DC turnover/poor skill position players/poor big game playcalling meant we had no chance to ACTUALLY win the West. But so many here make excuses like "he played a harder schedule!" even when it's pointed out we play 4 top 11 teams this year.
    First of all, it was 19-13 Bama in the 4th quarter in 2014. We outgained them 428-335 in total yards, had 26 first downs to their 17 but we had 3 turnovers and one of Dak's worst games. If that is "losing handily" (not to be confused with "loosing handily") then I'd like to hear what you call Leach's performances against the elites where the stat sheet is completely lopsided the other way and he's scored 1 td in 12 quarters against Bama, which was a garbage td at that.

    Second of all, why is it if someone says something negative about Leach people automatically throw you into a Mullen argument. I don't want to go back to that offense or system either but at least his teams played physical

  2. #62
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    I have found a coach for y'all. Availability coming this season.

    Has won a national championship.

    Known for his extensive offense.

    Known for developing QBs.

    Recruited the #1 class in the nation.

    Jimbo Fisher!!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    ^^^^This^^^^ is probably the best solution. Plus we are not going to have an AD until Probably January.
    Spending 70 million dollars on renovating a baseball stadium that didn?t need renovating instead of investing that in recruiting and other football related things. Is the proof that we don?t care enough about football.

    But but the left field lounge!!!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by msugolf View Post
    First of all, it was 19-13 Bama in the 4th quarter in 2014. We outgained them 428-335 in total yards, had 26 first downs to their 17 but we had 3 turnovers and one of Dak's worst games. If that is "losing handily" (not to be confused with "loosing handily") then I'd like to hear what you call Leach's performances against the elites where the stat sheet is completely lopsided the other way and he's scored 1 td in 12 quarters against Bama, which was a garbage td at that.

    Second of all, why is it if someone says something negative about Leach people automatically throw you into a Mullen argument. I don't want to go back to that offense or system either but at least his teams played physical
    The premise of his post was correct besides losing handily to Bama. However, we did lose handily to Ole Miss that year so maybe he got confused.

    To answer your second point, the guy who started this thread to bash Leach, introduced Mullen into this thread, not a Leach supporter.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    That's quite an assumption given that Dan was horrible at recruiting and worse at it than Leach.

    We don't have to be top 10 to make a jump. We should shoot for top 20.
    Been agreeing w a lot you have said, but, Dan wasn't worse at recruiting than CML. Leach hates it just as much. Maybe more. I'll save my stories til after he's gone. But it's terrible.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikeDawg15 View Post
    Spending 70 million dollars on renovating a baseball stadium that didn?t need renovating instead of investing that in recruiting and other football related things. Is the proof that we don?t care enough about football.

    But but the left field lounge!!!
    And we will never be a great football program. Just what it is. To say would shouldn't have built the new dude is just stupid.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Saltydog's Avatar
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    You don't spend your way outta debt. We could've put that money into football and we'd still be exactly where we are now. It is what it is and it's not going to change. The sooner some of you relegate to that fact the happier, healthier life you can live.
    "The QB and the receiver weren't on the same page there, but hey its only week eleven". (Jack Cristil)

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    And we will never be a great football program. Just what it is. To say would shouldn't have built the new dude is just stupid.
    This way of thinking is holding us back.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltydog View Post
    You don't spend your way outta debt. We could've put that money into football and we'd still be exactly where we are now. It is what it is and it's not going to change. The sooner some of you relegate to that fact the happier, healthier life you can live.
    Hey Larry Templeton I found ya!

  10. #70
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    I fundamentally reject the idea that Leach or Mullen are mediocre or that 7-5 is the best the program can ever do. If we are going to take the next step and become an 8-4 program, we need an above average coach, and I am skeptical that the next coach would be any better.

    We are a "7-5 program" but none of the other have nots in the SEC are, not consistently yet. Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc., haven't had the consistency over 13 years that Mullen built and Leach maintained.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    The difference is Leach has a good track record with patience.

    Statistically our offense has been as good or better than most of Dan's. And that's with a p**** playing QB. Georgia was allowing like 10 PPG coming into tonight. We scored 13.

    I want to see what Leach can do with a different QB and 4-5 classes of receivers.

    You can say he isn't changing but then we have Chris Parson as a QB recruit.
    Most very good WR's want to play in an exciting O that stretches the field now and then. We do not offer anything close to this at this time. Most good RB's like to run the ball a lot. Both these are issues at present and probably hurt recruiting at both positions.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldendawg View Post
    Most very good WR's want to play in an exciting O that stretches the field now and then. We do not offer anything close to this at this time. Most good RB's like to run the ball a lot. Both these are issues at present and probably hurt recruiting at both positions.
    We probably would if we had an NFL-type receiver like Michael Crabtree though.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Ranchdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltydog View Post
    You don't spend your way outta debt. We could've put that money into football and we'd still be exactly where we are now. It is what it is and it's not going to change. The sooner some of you relegate to that fact the happier, healthier life you can live.
    I totally disagree! Ole Miss is a example I’ll use because they are in our state and their coach was hired at aprox same time. They are at least competitive with the have’s of our conference see yesterday’s game vs Bama. Did our team look that competitive against Bama. NO ole miss has used the transfer portal used NIL have coaches that actually coach not afraid to change QBs not afraid of the team they are playing. According to Leech some of our players were afraid of Bama when we played them.

    Why play the game with mind set of we’ll always be who we are. That rationale is exactly why we are where we are. Why not demand excellence. Why not even try to better ourselves. What is the problem with demanding coaches do what they are paid a bunch of money to do is win football games and win the conference and or championships.

    Think if we had this mind set in baseball. We would have never won a Natty. Never

    This same attitude prevails in our whole state. And maybe that’s why we are last in just about everything.

  14. #74
    Senior Member DownwardDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by memsu06 View Post
    I have found a coach for y'all. Availability coming this season.

    Has won a national championship.

    Known for his extensive offense.

    Known for developing QBs.

    Recruited the #1 class in the nation.

    Jimbo Fisher!!
    That's a great idea Mr Cohen!! He's also known as the worst coach in the SEC! He'd fit right in!

  15. #75
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    If Ole Miss can keep Kiffin and maintain this new elevated level for the next decade, then good for him. However, I suspect that they'll be back to "less than a 7-5 program" next year without Kiffin and we'll win more games during the Mullen-Leach Era than they do over the same time frame.

    I could be wrong, but I bet I won't be.

  16. #76
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    Anybody that thinks time is going to fix this doesn't understand the game of football on a complex level. It would take an epiphany of epiphanies for leach to realize what he needs to do to improve his scheme and make it work against good teams consistently. It ain't happening. The man hasn't changed in 25 years.

    You pay a coach to do the best he can with what he has. And he could do much better.
    Bingo

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    I fundamentally reject the idea that Leach or Mullen are mediocre or that 7-5 is the best the program can ever do. If we are going to take the next step and become an 8-4 program, we need an above average coach, and I am skeptical that the next coach would be any better.

    We are a "7-5 program" but none of the other have nots in the SEC are, not consistently yet. Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc., haven't had the consistency over 13 years that Mullen built and Leach maintained.
    Then under that criteria Mullen was pretty close for you then, his first 4 years he averaged 7.25 wins a season building the program, then averaged 8 wins over his next 5 years. (8.2 if you include the 2017 bowl game he didn't coach).

  18. #78
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Fine.

    Mullen 69-46 (.600)
    In sec 33-39 (.458)

    Leach 17-17 (.500)
    In sec 10-15 (.400)

    If mullen wasn't good, leach really sucks
    Yep

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownwardDawg View Post
    Mullen was sooooo close to being that special coach for MSU. He showed what State is capable of if he had given more effort. Better recruiting and play calling and not job searching and he would have played in the SEC championship game a couple of times.
    Tell me again what his record was against Top 25 teams. We never finished strong after his annual loss to bama, job search, and not having team ready for OM in his last few years. His failure at UF was predicted here by many including the very time frame it would take.

  20. #80
    Senior Member DownwardDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldendawg View Post
    Tell me again what his record was against Top 25 teams. We never finished strong after his annual loss to bama, job search, and not having team ready for OM in his last few years. His failure at UF was predicted here by many including the very time frame it would take.
    Read my post again. You just agreed with my post. And I was one of the first posters on this board to predict his failure at Florida. He was lazy by that time and wouldn't recruit. But if you read my post you would see I pointed that out.

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