So we have two choices....

[CadaverDawg]

1. Be happy with 6-6/7-5 and continuing the bowl streak every year against someone like Miami of Ohio in the weed eater bowl. Meanwhile we continue to battle Vandy as the worst attended SEC football program, and overall enthusiasm continues to dwindle.

I know it sounds spoiled to complain about 7-5, but it is what it is. 7-5 has gotten stale. I just want us to have hope going in to big games. I can take 7-5 if we at least have a chance against the big boys. With Leach, we don't...and we won't. Argue all you want, but you know it's true.

2. Get rid of Leach/Encourage him to retire with pay....and take a chance on hiring someone that could potentially give us hope against the big boys.

I know it's risky. And it could result in Jimbo-like results. But we aren't beating LSU, Bama, Georgia, Tennessee, or Ole Miss again under Leach. Not with their current coaches. So do you risk losing the Belk bowl for a long shot chance at the Sugar?


I totally get the fear many have of going with a risky hire and potentially losing our bowl streak. I know we're poor State and it could be much worse. But how much NIL money will come in if we continue showing no ability to compete with the better teams? What is the advantage of staying at a pretty much guaranteed 6-6/7-5/8-4? These days damn near everyone goes bowling. Does anyone remember who won the Texas Bowl the last few years? Me neither.

We have to decide if we're wanting to try to compete, or if we're ok with being a 6-6 type program going forward. If you think we're going to increase our money as a 6-6/7-5 program...we're not. And yes, Ole Miss is committed and running circles around us. So are we going to get serious about football, or not? Are you good with 7-5 and a bowl while others are pumping in money to compete? You cool with pushing harder at hoops and baseball and sucking at football?

Those are the questions State fans and admin must answer. Are we all in on the #1 money maker sport, or are we too conservative (scared) to take a chance on being better? Maybe we can, maybe we can't...but as my grandpa said, "can't never could". I think we can do better. There's no way Ole Miss can consistently be top 15 taking Bama to the wire, and we have to settle for 30 point ass whippings against them. The Grove ain't that special...Oxford ain't that great....it's a commitment. A commitment we don't have. We can, we should...we don't. We would rather feel sorry for ourselves. Ole Miss is elitist, and pricks...but you can't deny their confidence, and the expectations they have. We are chicken shits with no confidence we can step up and get it done. So we settle. We settle for mediocre. We settle for a little better than average. We settle for "upper half of the league". "It's the SEC West" after all. "These teams have more money than us". "These teams have towns with more to offer". Bunch of damn excuses if you ask me.

Commit, 100%...or commit to not committing so those that want to win at a high level can commit their time and money and weekends to something or somebody that wants to succeed.

[Todd4State]

We're going to have to actually commit to recruiting at a much higher level than we are. Period. MSU as an AD has never done that. That's the biggest reason why we are stuck at 6-8 wins.

The problem is MSU fans and the AD have always tried to "do more with less" by bringing in some football guru to outscheme the SEC with lesser talented players and that is only going to get us so far.

I think it's because pre NIL we always ended up on probation and MSU always heavily penalized itself as a reaction. This discouraged our boosters from cheating or getting organized like we could and should have. It's also the biggest reason we got behind in NIL with Cohen not having a clue what he was doing as reason 1B.

I think that instead of blowing everything up as a program every few years let's actually invest in recruiting and see what we can build. We recruit reasonably well in other sports there is no reason why we can't in football.

[CadaverDawg]

We're going to have to actually commit to recruiting at a much higher level than we are. Period. MSU as an AD has never done that. That's the biggest reason why we are stuck at 6-8 wins.

The problem is MSU fans and the AD have always tried to "do more with less" by bringing in some football guru to outscheme the SEC with lesser talented players and that is only going to get us so far.

I think it's because pre NIL we always ended up on probation and MSU always heavily penalized itself as a reaction. This discouraged our boosters from cheating or getting organized like we could and should have. It's also the biggest reason we got behind in NIL with Cohen not having a clue what he was doing as reason 1B.

I think that instead of blowing everything up as a program every few years let's actually invest in recruiting and see what we can build. We recruit reasonably well in other sports there is no reason why we can't in football.

I would agree with that if we still had Mullen...a guy that could have won huge here with better recruiting. But Leach is the same with a roster full of 2 stars as he is a roster full of 4 stars...so I'm not sure HE is the guy to finally start recruiting big with. We have to continue as many high 3 and 4 stars as possible, plus a 5 star every few seasons in the trenches, all while increasing our coaching and transfer portal production. Easier said than done, but much more likely to land a slightly better class and hire a much better coach, than to increase our recruiting ranking 20 spots and hope Leach can turn that into a West Championship. Ole Miss isn't recruiting top 10, but they have the right coach, for example. We will have to do similar imo

[Quaoarsking]

Miami of Ohio is who you get when you go 5-7, not 7-5. Why exaggerate and overstate your case?

[CadaverDawg]

And I'll add this...

If Ole Miss continues to knock on the door, they'll break through and win the West soon. So wake up now, or that will wake our fan base up. Sad that it takes Ole Miss winning big for us to realize how comfortable we've gotten with mediocre. Pathetic really.

But if they had beaten Bama today and LSU lost (which both damn near happened), our fan base would be freaking the F out.

[CadaverDawg]

Miami of Ohio is who you get when you go 5-7, not 7-5. Why exaggerate and overstate your case?

Ha, the fact we know that and it's being used to argue me, shows exactly where we are as a program. The defense rests

[Quaoarsking]

And I'll add this...

If Ole Miss continues to knock on the door, they'll break through and win the West soon. So wake up now, or that will wake our fan base up. Sad that it takes Ole Miss winning big for us to realize how comfortable we've gotten with mediocre. Pathetic really.

But if they had beaten Bama today and LSU lost (which both damn near happened), our fan base would be freaking the F out.

Most of our fans were comfortable with Mullen (equal to Leach) and a lot of them were comfortable with Moorhead (clearly worse). I think that the Leach hatred is primarily driven by Ole Miss having a couple of good years and not anything that Leach has done himself. Why are we letting Ole Miss live in our heads and affect our own opinions so much?

[Quaoarsking]

Ha, the fact we know that and it's being used to argue me, shows exactly where we are as a program. The defense rests

Is "Ha! I was wrong on PURPOSE and you pointing that out proves that I'm actually right!" really the best you can do?

[msu15]

Miami of Ohio is who you get when you go 5-7, not 7-5. Why exaggerate and overstate your case?

Man some of you are so brain dead it's appalling.

[CadaverDawg]

Most of our fans were comfortable with Mullen (equal to Leach) and a lot of them were comfortable with Moorhead (clearly worse). I think that the Leach hatred is primarily driven by Ole Miss having a couple of good years and not anything that Leach has done himself. Why are we letting Ole Miss live in our heads and affect our own opinions so much?

I totally disagree. Leach came in as an "offensive guru", and our defense has carried us every single year so far. Our offense absolutely sucks against decent to good teams. The Leach frustration has everything to do with his air raid NOT raiding the air. But you can believe his losses to Ole Miss aren't helping...nor should they.

The bigger question is what in the world are people like you seeing that makes you defend him so hard. Becasue I can admit when Leach has a good game...but people like you absolutely will never admit to him having a bad game or doing a bad job. It's weird. Leach is not bigger than State. No matter what his resume is.

[CadaverDawg]

Is "Ha! I was wrong on PURPOSE and you pointing that out proves that I'm actually right!" really the best you can do?

Nope, I legit didn't remember what bowl we played them in. Would Louisville or Tulsa have been better examples of some of the behemoths we've duked it out with in bowls?? That sound better? Some Giants, big names, for sure. How dare I mix up Miami Ohio with a beast like Tulsa.

[Todd4State]

I would agree with that if we still had Mullen...a guy that could have won huge here with better recruiting. But Leach is the same with a roster full of 2 stars as he is a roster full of 4 stars...so I'm not sure HE is the guy to finally start recruiting big with. We have to continue as many high 3 and 4 stars as possible, plus a 5 star every few seasons in the trenches, all while increasing our coaching and transfer portal production. Easier said than done, but much more likely to land a slightly better class and hire a much better coach, than to increase our recruiting ranking 20 spots and hope Leach can turn that into a West Championship. Ole Miss isn't recruiting top 10, but they have the right coach, for example. We will have to do similar imo

That's quite an assumption given that Dan was horrible at recruiting and worse at it than Leach.

We don't have to be top 10 to make a jump. We should shoot for top 20.

[Todd4State]

I totally disagree. Leach came in as an "offensive guru", and our defense has carried us every single year so far. Our offense absolutely sucks against decent to good teams. The Leach frustration has everything to do with his air raid NOT raiding the air. But you can believe his losses to Ole Miss aren't helping...nor should they.

The bigger question is what in the world are people like you seeing that makes you defend him so hard. Becasue I can admit when Leach has a good game...but people like you absolutely will never admit to him having a bad game or doing a bad job. It's weird. Leach is not bigger than State. No matter what his resume is.

The difference is Leach has a good track record with patience.

Statistically our offense has been as good or better than most of Dan's. And that's with a p**** playing QB. Georgia was allowing like 10 PPG coming into tonight. We scored 13.

I want to see what Leach can do with a different QB and 4-5 classes of receivers.

You can say he isn't changing but then we have Chris Parson as a QB recruit.

[CadaverDawg]

That's quite an assumption given that Dan was horrible at recruiting and worse at it than Leach.

We don't have to be top 10 to make a jump. We should shoot for top 20.

I thought we were talking about if our recruiting was significantly better under specific coaches. Leach isn't a big time
Recruiter either...so I thought you meant using the money to help us recruit. It won't increase the amount Leach puts into it, just like it wouldn't Mullen. But the money would help.

And since Mullen won 10 games and had a balanced attack with stout defenses....and Leach isn't even our best coach on the field each Saturday....I would definitely say Mullen could win much bigger than Leach if each had a top 15-20 class each year. But that's just me and I'm aware it can't be proven.

[Todd4State]

I thought we were talking about if our recruiting was significantly better under specific coaches. Leach isn't a big time
Recruiter either...so I thought you meant using the money to help us recruit. It won't increase the amount Leach puts into it, just like it wouldn't Mullen. But the money would help.

And since Mullen won 10 games and had a balanced attack with stout defenses....and Leach isn't even our best coach on the field each Saturday....I would definitely say Mullen could win much bigger than Leach if each had a top 15-20 class each year. But that's just me and I'm aware it can't be proven.

Well Leach has won 11 before- twice. Something Dan only did at Florida with someone else's players. And yes Leach's staff recruits harder than Dan's did.

Dan's offense was not balanced. It was run heavy.

[CadaverDawg]

The difference is Leach has a good track record with patience.

Statistically our offense has been as good or better than most of Dan's. And that's with a p**** playing QB. Georgia was allowing like 10 PPG coming into tonight. We scored 13.

I want to see what Leach can do with a different QB and 4-5 classes of receivers.

You can say he isn't changing but then we have Chris Parson as a QB recruit.

So we have to go through 3 more years of this shit and hope Parson sticks around before we get to see him? No thanks.

[CadaverDawg]

Well Leach has won 11 before- twice. Something Dan only did at Florida with someone else's players. And yes Leach's staff recruits harder than Dan's did.

Dan's offense was not balanced. It was run heavy.

1. Leach's staff has a lot of the same recruiters. And they may recruit harder, but the results are the same, or worse

2. Compared to Leach, Dan's offense was extremely balanced.

[Quaoarsking]

Nope, I legit didn't remember what bowl we played them in. Would Louisville or Tulsa have been better examples of some of the behemoths we've duked it out with in bowls?? That sound better? Some Giants, big names, for sure. How dare I mix up Miami Ohio with a beast like Tulsa.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or serious, but yes, Tulsa is a far better program than Miami (OH), and Louisville is a decent power 5 program. (?)

[Quaoarsking]

The bigger question is what in the world are people like you seeing that makes you defend him so hard. Becasue I can admit when Leach has a good game...but people like you absolutely will never admit to him having a bad game or doing a bad job. It's weird. Leach is not bigger than State. No matter what his resume is.

I'm completely baffled at where this notion is coming from. I was pretty vocally disappointed with our game against Kentucky. While I'm not going to get too upset with a road loss to a ranked (at the time team), I thought we were flat the whole time, and today especially that loss looks a lot worse.

I was a little disappointed with today. Now at no point before or during the season did I think we were going to win and I thought we fought OK (not hard, not well, but better than we have the last few weeks). A little bit better execution on offense and we could have had a 1-score or even tied game late in the 4th quarter. I just don't see us as that far off, even with the talent gap between us and Georgia being as big as it ever has been.

[Quaoarsking]

Dan's offense was extremely balanced.

Who cares though? At long as we win enough to be a mid-tier SEC program (virtually no coaches are going to be able to do better with the talent/recruiting situation), I don't care what offense we run.