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Thread: The real problem

  1. #61
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    And to you Cohen - I'm not mad at the hire - I hoped it would work but had my doubts. But I will hold you accountable if we don't make a change. It's the equivalent to hiring a baseball coach that never bunts and never utilizes pitching matchups.
    Leach isn't going anywhere unless we completely implode this season and finish 6-6 with a third consecutive loss to OM. Then he will be asked to "retire". And if that comes to fruition I'm 100% behind it.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    Woody Marks and Dillon Johnson will both be NFL backs. At least one of our wide receivers will be drafted, I feel like the last wide receiver we had drafted was Eric Moulds so yes we are more talented in those rooms
    It's way more likely neither of those guys make a roster in the NFL than both do. Solid college players. That's about it. RaRa is a possibility. Past that don't see a guy that's a sure fire pick.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    They aren't even in the top half of the sec. OM probably has 2 better right now in this state... 1 for sure
    2. The Fr might be better than Evans before all is said and done.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg View Post
    Is that the same group that said Jamal Peters was a third round pick? All the while I'm saying he'd go undrafted and never play in the NFL........

  5. #65
    Senior Member FISHDAWG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Good thread. Needed this around here. Good points made on both sides

    October will really show us what's what
    we played barely good enough to win for 3 quarters and had the lead .... LSU scored right before the half but it's not easy to shut out an SEC blue-blood for an entire half especially when our coach is going for it on 4th down on our side of the 35 yd line - even so, the third qtr wasn't to bad as defense still held firm...... the mistake to start the 4th quarter is what's causing this entire conversation. That 4th quarter crap is causing this negativity .... if we don't muff that punt and hung on to win then we would be reading about how good this team is .... We have always been a 7-5 team hoping for 8-4 and praying for a miracle 9-3 ....... 10-2 was NEVER going to happen.
    You're right though - good discussion here but everyone needs to remember that Leach is doing the best with what he has ... BUT LEACH NEEDS TO MAKE BETTER DECISIONS and add some innovation
    OXFORD, Miss. (WTVA) - Ole Miss campus police ask students to behave at future baseball games following a recent incident.
    The university said students were reportedly throwing rocks at Georgia baseball players during last weekend's series.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldendawg View Post
    Lack speed at LB, edge, and safety? Who's left? DL gets very little pressure with a 3 man front and sometimes even when we send the house. What happened to the fast, tough DE's I read about in the preseason? I think our preseason hype was about the worse I have ever fallen for since my first game attended in 1963. Year may get tougher fast.
    I agree the lack of speed and strength on our Defense is telling. We can't get to the QB and he has all day to find a receiver open. If LSU had a more accurate QB, they would have beaten us worse than they did. I don't think we will be very competitive against Alabama and Georgia. They are faster and stronger than we are.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISHDAWG View Post
    0-2 was NEVER going to happen.
    Had we not dropped the punt we'd be 3-0 and everybody would be talking about being 4-0 against A&M and how 10 wins is definitely in play
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Had we not dropped the punt we'd be 3-0 and everybody would be talking about being 4-0 against A&M and how 10 wins is definitely in play
    Truth. Same could be said about the end of the half drive. We come out in the 3rd different. LSU doesn't come out as pumped.



    But again, we are building a program. Part of that means that we learn how to win. Were we good enough to win as a team? Yes. But the moment was bigger.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    The punt changed momentum but it didn't cost us the game. This is a damn veteran team that should be mentally tougher than the shit show we saw the second half. Go take that momentum back. We didn't even put up a fight the second half. Folded like a cheap lawn chair.

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    LSU had puckered butt holes until the muffed punt to end the 3rd and Tiger Stadium woke up as Calling Baton Rouge played across the stadium at the beginning of the 4th that was the swing in the game

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    The punt changed momentum but it didn't cost us the game. This is a damn veteran team that should be mentally tougher than the shit show we saw the second half. Go take that momentum back. We didn't even put up a fight the second half. Folded like a cheap lawn chair.
    See we can agree on some things. This team needs to learn to close in the big games. Learn to play with the lead and finish.

  12. #72
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    LSU had puckered butt holes until the muffed punt to end the 3rd and Tiger Stadium woke up as Calling Baton Rouge played across the stadium at the beginning of the 4th that was the swing in the game
    Yep. That muffed punt was the game changer.

    My counter to this thread is: The real problem is you can't drop five passes for nice gains and muff a punt in Death Valley and expect to win. Catch those five passes, don't muff the punt and we win.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    No it's not. This scheme is ancient. So much so, there is no "scheme". It's line up and run the same handful of plays over and over. We don't do anything to help ourselves. Even the LSU players said so. They knew what we were going to do and that we kept trying the same things over and over. That's why they basically shut it down after the first half.
    I was corrected the other day and told that Leach was hired BECAUSE his offense is innovative, when I claimed it WAS innovative 20-25 years ago but is now just antiquated and inefficient.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.

    1) This offense does not exploit mismatches. The college game is won by those who know how to circle weaknesses on teams and exploit them. Instead, we run what we run and focus on execution and don't exploit other teams weaknesses or game plan to exploit them on a detailed level.

    2) If the other teams ends are better than our tackles, that is possibly the game. Arizona got us in a tight spot because of this. Their DL was the only talent they had and it nearly exploited our offense at times. Good defenses like Georgia, alabama and LSU will win every time. We make it so easy on DCs - they just pin their ears back and come after us every play. We just let our tackles live on an island and hope they win. And if they don't, so be it. A running back can't chip an SEC defensive end. We don't bootleg. We rarely run play action. We don't run inside screens. We rarely run draws. We don't make defenses back off in any way. They have learned to let linebackers sit down in coverage but still play close enough to be effective in our few run plays. Our guards essentially are a waste of a body on many pass plays. That's a mismatch to the advantage of the DC - think about it - - we have two blockers nearly every play that don't even account for anyone. That's why they can cover 5-6 with 8. Its INSANITY.

    3) Tight Ends - name me a good team at any level of football that doesn't have an effective tight end. A good tight end would really change this offense. Ends and linebackers would have to start paying better attention and they couldn't just pin their ears back. He would be an extra dump route outside of the running back. I don't know why we don't just put one of our bigger receivers there to chip and create some disguise at times.

    4) We don't have an OC and therefore no creative play making. We just focus on repetition and execution. It's like only taking one tool to a job when you might need a dozen different things. This offense could be killer at our current talent level if we could just make defenses keep guessing. Instead they generally know what we are doing, they just have to stop it. Think about that. They know what we are going to do week in and week out. Saban was able to alter his defense last year in one week of practice because he knew exactly what we were going to do so he took advantage. The offense is a sitting duck to good coaches with average talent. You can make confident calls when you aren't guessing what we are going to do next. And again - make me a good team at any level that doesn't have a good OC.

    I'm done with Leach - this offense is a joke against good teams. Good DCs will eat us alive going forward. Our talent and experience are the only thing that will keep us in games. The coaching will not. We have a coach that has not changed anything in 20 years and I again would love for you to point me to a coach that has found consistent success without adapting. Even the best coaches with the best talent adapt. It's really a disservice for him to get paid what he is making and not put in the work to change and adapt to beat good teams. That's his job.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    The punt changed momentum but it didn't cost us the game. This is a damn veteran team that should be mentally tougher than the shit show we saw the second half. Go take that momentum back. We didn't even put up a fight the second half. Folded like a cheap lawn chair.
    "Veteran team", means a year older but not always a year better. Looks like we have some potential in the last 2 recruiting classes, but they were ranked # 25ish. This year we are stuck at #39 and the list of remaining HS players "warm" to us looks slim. Herein lies the problem. We need to take some of our record $EC yearly check and spend a lot more on recruiting now! According to our list of top targets on Genespage, we don't even go after many 4 stars. Hail State!

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMDawg View Post
    I was corrected the other day and told that Leach was hired BECAUSE his offense is innovative, when I claimed it WAS innovative 20-25 years ago but is now just antiquated and inefficient.
    Prerequisite for Leach's offense-good accurate passing QB, OL that gives the QB time to pass, good speedy W/R's that can catch. If one of those 3 fails, it ain't going to work.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCDawg View Post
    Prerequisite for Leach's offense-good accurate passing QB, OL that gives the QB time to pass, good speedy W/R's that can catch. If one of those 3 fails, it ain't going to work.
    I also thought by mistake that the "Air Raid" stretched the field with some exciting long passes. So far not so much, and it seems to need to need to rely on 12 to 14 play drives of short to intermediate pass completions to succeed. Having issues against strong SEC defenses with aggressive corners and a quick DE, but other O's have this issue also. We also need more team speed at LB, DE, & Safety asap. Hail State!

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    No it's not. This scheme is ancient. So much so, there is no "scheme". It's line up and run the same handful of plays over and over. We don't do anything to help ourselves. Even the LSU players said so. They knew what we were going to do and that we kept trying the same things over and over. That's why they basically shut it down after the first half.
    You get it man - you saw it before nearly anyone. I don't know why this is so complicated for people to understand.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldendawg View Post
    I also thought by mistake that the "Air Raid" stretched the field with some exciting long passes. So far not so much, and it seems to need to need to rely on 12 to 14 play drives of short to intermediate pass completions to succeed. Having issues against strong SEC defenses with aggressive corners and a quick DE, but other O's have this issue also. We also need more team speed at LB, DE, & Safety asap. Hail State!
    The reason this offense doesn't stretch the field is because teams can play zone with two high safeties. There will be no stretching the field in this league. You are seeing the same thing in the nfl now.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCDawg View Post
    Prerequisite for Leach's offense-good accurate passing QB, OL that gives the QB time to pass, good speedy W/R's that can catch. If one of those 3 fails, it ain't going to work.
    All true. But also true is that when you throw it 60 times in a game, you run a high risk of negative plays (sacks, interceptions, drops, quick 3 and outs, holding penalties, etc.). The way Will runs the offense, it's lower risk and lower reward. With QBs who push the ball down the field, the risk/reward goes up. That's why you see huge blowouts, weird outcomes (Leach upsetting, Leach being upset), furious comebacks, etc. in Leach games. It's completely unpredictable from game to game and almost impossible to sustain across an entire season. Especially if you account for weather and other outside variables. Those saying Will isn't the answer - well, they're correct if they think the answer is pushing the ball down the field and turning this offense into the higher risk higher reward version. But the problems don't go away.

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