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Thread: The real problem

  1. #1
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    The real problem

    You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.

    1) This offense does not exploit mismatches. The college game is won by those who know how to circle weaknesses on teams and exploit them. Instead, we run what we run and focus on execution and don't exploit other teams weaknesses or game plan to exploit them on a detailed level.

    2) If the other teams ends are better than our tackles, that is possibly the game. Arizona got us in a tight spot because of this. Their DL was the only talent they had and it nearly exploited our offense at times. Good defenses like Georgia, alabama and LSU will win every time. We make it so easy on DCs - they just pin their ears back and come after us every play. We just let our tackles live on an island and hope they win. And if they don't, so be it. A running back can't chip an SEC defensive end. We don't bootleg. We rarely run play action. We don't run inside screens. We rarely run draws. We don't make defenses back off in any way. They have learned to let linebackers sit down in coverage but still play close enough to be effective in our few run plays. Our guards essentially are a waste of a body on many pass plays. That's a mismatch to the advantage of the DC - think about it - - we have two blockers nearly every play that don't even account for anyone. That's why they can cover 5-6 with 8. Its INSANITY.

    3) Tight Ends - name me a good team at any level of football that doesn't have an effective tight end. A good tight end would really change this offense. Ends and linebackers would have to start paying better attention and they couldn't just pin their ears back. He would be an extra dump route outside of the running back. I don't know why we don't just put one of our bigger receivers there to chip and create some disguise at times.

    4) We don't have an OC and therefore no creative play making. We just focus on repetition and execution. It's like only taking one tool to a job when you might need a dozen different things. This offense could be killer at our current talent level if we could just make defenses keep guessing. Instead they generally know what we are doing, they just have to stop it. Think about that. They know what we are going to do week in and week out. Saban was able to alter his defense last year in one week of practice because he knew exactly what we were going to do so he took advantage. The offense is a sitting duck to good coaches with average talent. You can make confident calls when you aren't guessing what we are going to do next. And again - make me a good team at any level that doesn't have a good OC.

    I'm done with Leach - this offense is a joke against good teams. Good DCs will eat us alive going forward. Our talent and experience are the only thing that will keep us in games. The coaching will not. We have a coach that has not changed anything in 20 years and I again would love for you to point me to a coach that has found consistent success without adapting. Even the best coaches with the best talent adapt. It's really a disservice for him to get paid what he is making and not put in the work to change and adapt to beat good teams. That's his job.

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    And to you Cohen - I'm not mad at the hire - I hoped it would work but had my doubts. But I will hold you accountable if we don't make a change. It's the equivalent to hiring a baseball coach that never bunts and never utilizes pitching matchups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.

    1) This offense does not exploit mismatches. The college game is won by those who know how to circle weaknesses on teams and exploit them. Instead, we run what we run and focus on execution and don't exploit other teams weaknesses or game plan to exploit them on a detailed level.

    2) If the other teams ends are better than our tackles, that is possibly the game. Arizona got us in a tight spot because of this. Their DL was the only talent they had and it nearly exploited our offense at times. Good defenses like Georgia, alabama and LSU will win every time. We make it so easy on DCs - they just pin their ears back and come after us every play. We just let our tackles live on an island and hope they win. And if they don't, so be it. A running back can't chip an SEC defensive end. We don't bootleg. We rarely run play action. We don't run inside screens. We rarely run draws. We don't make defenses back off in any way. They have learned to let linebackers sit down in coverage but still play close enough to be effective in our few run plays. Our guards essentially are a waste of a body on many pass plays. That's a mismatch to the advantage of the DC - think about it - - we have two blockers nearly every play that don't even account for anyone. That's why they can cover 5-6 with 8. Its INSANITY.

    3) Tight Ends - name me a good team at any level of football that doesn't have an effective tight end. A good tight end would really change this offense. Ends and linebackers would have to start paying better attention and they couldn't just pin their ears back. He would be an extra dump route outside of the running back. I don't know why we don't just put one of our bigger receivers there to chip and create some disguise at times.

    4) We don't have an OC and therefore no creative play making. We just focus on repetition and execution. It's like only taking one tool to a job when you might need a dozen different things. This offense could be killer at our current talent level if we could just make defenses keep guessing. Instead they generally know what we are doing, they just have to stop it. Think about that. They know what we are going to do week in and week out. Saban was able to alter his defense last year in one week of practice because he knew exactly what we were going to do so he took advantage. The offense is a sitting duck to good coaches with average talent. You can make confident calls when you aren't guessing what we are going to do next. And again - make me a good team at any level that doesn't have a good OC.

    I'm done with Leach - this offense is a joke against good teams. Good DCs will eat us alive going forward. Our talent and experience are the only thing that will keep us in games. The coaching will not. We have a coach that has not changed anything in 20 years and I again would love for you to point me to a coach that has found consistent success without adapting. Even the best coaches with the best talent adapt. It's really a disservice for him to get paid what he is making and not put in the work to change and adapt to beat good teams. That's his job.
    this is a terrible take all around. this offense works. we need a qb who can throw downfield with zip and have just a little mobility and it will take off. this offense even works to be avg or slightly above avg with a limited qb which is what we currently have.

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    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

    It?s mis-placed blame

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    I guess we'll just keep trying coaches out every 3-4 years till we get one the fans like? That will be awesome for recruiting with a fan base that doesn't do much with NIL.

    Keep it up and we'll be back to the Croom years.

    The Air Raid does work. Our receivers are getting open. Will just needs to make up his mind faster and the receiver needs to catch the ball.

    This LSU game reminded me of the Ole Miss game last year. We were in the game until we had critical dropped passes and turn overs.

    Mullen was 0-9 against Bama
    Mullen was 2-7 against LSU
    Mullen lost to South Alabama

    If you're going to judge Mike Leach then you need to look at Dan Mullen the same way.

    We're going to have games where we aren't firing on all cylinders. This LSU game was a breakdown of the entire team.

    LSU is a much better team than most realize. They have talent all over the field. It wouldn't surprise me they give Bama a good game.

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    Senior Member Maroonthirteen's Avatar
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    Hahaha. Anytime some facts are presented, the swabs come out with "but but but ...Mullen, Moorhead...". Blah blah blah.

    Cowbell is dead on about this offense. This offense is the same formations every week. Same Plays with 7-9 variations of pass routes. But don't listen to Cowbell, listen to DCs and players around the country.

    Now will this offense work? Yeah to some extent vs equal talent. But this offense does require exceptional talent along the line, because it puts tackles and guards in one on one situations in space. You will need high quality OL, size and speed, to give any QB the necessary time for the 7-9 routes to develop. (This is why you don't see passes down field. Not enough time for QB, two safeties every the top). Then you'll need to continue to recruit high Level QBs. Two positions msu has always struggled to recruit. Oh and NIL, I give to BIL. But.... State is number 13 in the sec in recruiting budget. Tell ole LT-Cohen to get off the check book and fund recruiting..... Mizer 2.0. Anyways....

    What I find funny," air raid, air raid, air raid." Now everyone wants a QB that can run. Yeah, you'll need a QB that can run with this offense. The gaps are so wide and our OL so slow, it is an interstate freeway to the backfield for LBs.

    Looking forward to the Mullen did this Moorhead did that thread. Meanwhile we will see if this offense scores a TD on Bama or UGA this year.
    Last edited by Maroonthirteen; 09-21-2022 at 05:38 AM.

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    Senior Member Maroonthirteen's Avatar
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    Let me add too... I'm not advocating for Leach to be fired. I'm sure he wasn't Cohens first choice but at the end of the process he was the best choice ... let that sink in. Leach has been good as far as organization and discipline.

    However, This offense has flaws. It may be David's sling shot and rock but difference is Goliath knows it's coming and how and when David is going to sling the rock. Point is, it isn't always on the players.

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    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

    It?s mis-placed blame
    We were favored. ED and SPS spent all offseason telling us lsu was trash. Now lsu is back! Clowns.

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    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    We were favored. ED and SPS spent all offseason telling us lsu was trash. Now lsu is back! Clowns.
    I think we?re going to be a solid team, but?

    1. LSU is never trash. They?re talent is too good.

    2. They were more talented at most every position on the field.

  10. #10
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    I think we?re going to be a solid team, but?

    1. LSU is never trash. They?re talent is too good.

    2. They were more talented at most every position on the field.
    The difference in the game wasn't talent even though I agree with you. The difference ended up being we put a subpar player in to replace a good player on PR.

    ETA... lsu is better at off-the-field positions (coaching), too
    Last edited by msstate7; 09-21-2022 at 07:46 AM.

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    Senior Member FISHDAWG's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Cowbell;1449539]You boys can talk about Will all you want But it's a moot point. Period. It's sad that the most accurate passer we have ever had is getting wasted in a faulty offensive scheme and here's the reasons why.
    Will is good but I think Tyler Russell had better accuracy IMO ... both had slow feet

    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position on the field and these same people don?t give to NIL while wanting the coach fired.

    It?s mis-placed blame
    truth ... if you want to complain then pony up first

    Quote Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen View Post
    Let me add too... I'm not advocating for Leach to be fired. I'm sure he wasn't Cohens first choice but at the end of the process he was the best choice ... let that sink in. Leach has been good as far as organization and discipline.

    However, This offense has flaws. It may be David's sling shot and rock but difference is Goliath knows it's coming and how and when David is going to sling the rock. Point is, it isn't always on the players.
    Truth ... it wasn't Will's call to go for it on 4th down everytime we turned around and it certainly isn't his fault that we have no better running plays than what we used on those 4th down attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    We were favored. ED and SPS spent all offseason telling us lsu was trash. Now lsu is back! Clowns.
    So many of us already expected this and I don't think this game was a surprise to anyone even though a lot here expected to beat them .... the same applies to almost any SEC team
    OXFORD, Miss. (WTVA) - Ole Miss campus police ask students to behave at future baseball games following a recent incident.
    The university said students were reportedly throwing rocks at Georgia baseball players during last weekend's series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    We were favored. ED and SPS spent all offseason telling us lsu was trash. Now lsu is back! Clowns.
    It is funny, not making sideline adjustments was a huge mistake as were the turnover and drop passes. We got out-coached and out-played.

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    The difference in the game wasn't talent even though I agree with you. The difference ended up being we put a subpar player in to replace a good player on PR.
    So BJ Ojulari's talent wasn't what impacted the game? Or Nabers? They took over the game in the second half - which is what talent can do. Especially at home with a rocking crowd. And they are better than any players we put on the field on either side of the ball. Both statistically, recruiting stars, and real talent.

    I never bought in to LSU being trash. They have a ton of talent. Yes, they are in a transition year which many posters on here said "glad we got them early in the season hopefully before they have a chance to gel". Guess what? We missed that window by a half. I think if we played them week 1 like FSU we likely win. But you could watch that team maturing and coming together during the game. They play like they did Saturday, and they will run through their next 5 games and be 7-1 playing Bama.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  14. #14
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    So BJ Ojulari's talent wasn't what impacted the game? Or Nabers? They took over the game in the second half - which is what talent can do. Especially at home with a rocking crowd. And they are better than any players we put on the field on either side of the ball. Both statistically, recruiting stars, and real talent.

    I never bought in to LSU being trash. They have a ton of talent. Yes, they are in a transition year which many posters on here said "glad we got them early in the season hopefully before they have a chance to gel". Guess what? We missed that window by a half. I think if we played them week 1 like FSU we likely win. But you could watch that team maturing and coming together during the game. They play like they did Saturday, and they will run through their next 5 games and be 7-1 playing Bama.
    At auburn
    Tenn
    At Florida
    OM

    I'd love to bet they don't run that table

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    Senior Member Maroonthirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    So funny to hear people blame scheme when LSU had a better player at most every position
    I'm positive you said many times the air raid neutralizes the talent gap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen View Post
    I'm positive you said many times the air raid neutralizes the talent gap.
    Yes the air raid does help negate the talent gap. LSU had the #8 most talented roster in the country, MSU #29. One game doesn?t make a season.

    Leach is 1-2 against LSU, Dan was 2-7....as in most stats, Leach will surpass Dan

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    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    I don't get all the talk about DM versus ML, it has nothing to do with this season or any season. Time to move on as DM ain't coming back to StarkVegas.

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    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeyPirate View Post
    Yes the air raid does help negate the talent gap. LSU had the #8 most talented roster in the country, MSU #29. One game doesn?t make a season.

    Leach is 1-2 against LSU, Dan was 2-7....as in most stats, Leach will surpass Dan
    LSU while mullen was here: 87-29
    LSU while leach has been here: 13-12

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    I'm not so sure Will is deadly accurate like many say. He just makes a lot of high % throws. I've seen Will be pretty inaccurate on what should be routine throws. I think this offense can be a little deceiving when it comes to completion percentage. I think Will is decent and like Leach he'll win you some games you shouldn't win but also disappear at times.

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    Dan Mullen sec record his first five years at State :3-5, 4-4, 2-6, 4-4 , 3-5. Against a much easier SOS than Leach.

    I think Leach will top that easily against a much harder SOS.

    Dans record against LSU was 2-7, leach will also beat that.

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