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Thread: Here's the Most Disappointing Thing About Will Rogers to me

  1. #21
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    Blaming Will for the offense's problem is like complaining to the person that handed you your McDonalds, that the food tastes like shit.

    Will is running the offense that he is being asked to run with the weapons it has. I genuinely don't know many QB's in the SEC that could be running it better. The shortcomings of the offense are usually because the offense has not adapted and does not have RPO elements that puts pressure on the defense.

    Maybe a better analogy would be like if you have a flip phone and are pissed that the flip phone has shitty photos and doesn't have internet access. Guess what, its not the phone's fault, its the person who decided to buy a shit phone. It's not Will's fault that teams are going to come up with schemes that make our offense look like shit.

  2. #22
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog View Post
    Blaming Will for the offense's problem is like complaining to the person that handed you your McDonalds, that the food tastes like shit.

    Will is running the offense that he is being asked to run with the weapons it has. I genuinely don't know many QB's in the SEC that could be running it better. The shortcomings of the offense are usually because the offense has not adapted and does not have RPO elements that puts pressure on the defense.

    Maybe a better analogy would be like if you have a flip phone and are pissed that the flip phone has shitty photos and doesn't have internet access. Guess what, its not the phone's fault, its the person who decided to buy a shit phone. It's not Will's fault that teams are going to come up with schemes that make our offense look like shit.
    Totally absolving will is as dumb as blaming him entirely imo.

    You said we would beat lsu all season until we didn't. Why was the offense capable before we lost?

    ETA... it sounds like you ready to move on too though, so I'm certainly cool with that. I'd throw the house at Dave clawson. He's proven he can win with a talent deficit using an offense that much better fits the players we typically get here easier than pass first
    Last edited by msstate7; 09-20-2022 at 03:28 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Totally absolving will is as dumb as blaming him entirely imo.

    You said we would beat lsu all season until we didn't. Why was the offense capable before we lost?
    Damn it. I'm agreeing with 7.

    Dogs and cats living together...the end of the world...

    Will gets to make changes based on what he sees. He did it a lot last year. And mostly it worked. Saturday night it did not. He made some horrible reads. He had some guys wide open (Rufus several times) but took sacks. That's on him.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Totally absolving will is as dumb as blaming him entirely imo.

    You said we would beat lsu all season until we didn't. Why was the offense capable before we lost?
    I still think we are the better team. We should have won. Some of the decisions were maddening. The 4th down calls, even the one we got were terrible. I'm not sure how that is on Will.

    We stopped running the ball after having success in the first half, not sure why. Maybe that is on Will.

    I thought Will threw maybe one bad pass - the interception. They rushed 3 and 4 most of the game and we didn't know how to adjust to a man with 3 guys playing zone defense. Sure they mixed in some straight zone, but they played a ton of man coverage with 3 robbers (i know they weren't all playing that, but they were in zone). That is not a look that we have seen a bunch. We didn't make adjustments, usually because we don't have a large playbook. If we are seeing something for the first time, we will normally struggle. If you want to put that on Will, that is fine, but I think it is a coaching issue.

    I think we gave up on the run way too early and failed to make adjustments when they simply crashed down on the RB because the QB is zero threat to run with the ball.

    Does anyone think LSU is better than us? I just don't think they are very good. Now this doesn't speak well for us, but I just think we will be able to move the ball on teams this year and that our defense is good. Maybe I'm wrong, but we should not have lost on Saturday.

  5. #25
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrapGame View Post
    Damn it. I'm agreeing with 7.

    Dogs and cats living together...the end of the world...

    Will gets to make changes based on what he sees. He did it a lot last year. And mostly it worked. Saturday night it did not. He made some horrible reads. He had some guys wide open (Rufus several times) but took sacks. That's on him.
    You'll be ready to strangle me again by Saturday lol

  6. #26
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    You'll be ready to strangle me again by Saturday lol
    LOL! Probably so!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    No offense dawg166 - but anyone wanting Will to keep and run on a read option just wants us to lose and have Will get creamed. Will has no burst when running. Did you see how long it took him to get that 6 yards on his one run Saturday? His running makes Tyler Russell look like a natural in the the dead option
    He scrambled one time the other night and made 5 to 7 yards and for a 1st down I believe while sliding untouched. He could've pulled a handoff at least twice and done the same thing cause there was a lot of green grass just outside of the crashing LB/DE. JMHO tho. Also IMO, Will just does not ever look to run or really move in pocket either.

    Either way ... if he won't/can't pull handoff to make the LB/DE pay the price for crashing, the RB ain't gonna make many yds on the run. Leach needs to figure that out.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    I think he just needs to play. Like he did against Auburn. Don't think too much. Run the play. Trust the system. There are people open. Smoke and mirrors only get you so far before the other team picks up on that. Even without having extra protection, fakes, bells whistles, this guy in motion and this guy playing in the slot- there are plays to be made. And usually it's a short pass. It's not like we're asking him to make shot plays all the time. That's what is frustrating to me- it's there. I expect a SEC college football QB who has been running any system to be able to complete a 10 yard pass. That's a very basic ask- I wouldn't be surprised if most D2 QB's that are average could do that. All of that other stuff that fans suggest is really just fan service if we're being honest with ourselves. "I want it to look this way because I like that". Moorhead tried to cater to the fans to the point where by the 2019 Egg Bowl we were essentially running the ball every play- and guess what? It looked like shit.

    My impression is he's worried about something else. I don't know what. Whether that's impressing people or whether it's throwing an interception or being afraid of being hit- he needs to get over whatever it is.

    Because it's the craziest thing to me- he is actually so accurate when he throws the ball downfield if you look at him statistically. But he just rarely does it when it's there.
    He is worried about winning. Jesus people. I realize everyone is QB crazy but it is not a one man game. Some of this has just gotten way out of left field

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgday166 View Post
    Watched the replay. Paused/Replayed/Paused/Replayed etc.

    Oline didn't play well. They're playing slow and usually a guard can't make up his mind who to help in pass pro .. so he ends up not blocking or helping a soul. Tackles struggle with fast edge rushers. We struggle with 5 or 6 to give Will time against 4 ... and then he gets nervous. In run blocking, no lineman is good at blocking LBs on 2nd level. When they pull to lead sweeps they usually end up blocking no one to any extent. RBs outrun them too. Slow afoot.

    Didn't run the mesh one time the other night (maybe because it takes a little more time to develop ... don't know). Thought that was bread n butter of air raid. Having said that, there was a lot of open grass for receivers to run to and they didn't always do that, which I'm putting on Will since he's calling/audibling into plays. Will didn't read the D very well all night and was a little off on his throws.

    On running plays, Will needs to keep it more. DE/LB ain't paying a lick of attention to him and crashing hard on RBs. That's killing us. Gotta make them pay for that. Will needs to step up and keep it some ... there was plenty of room for him to gain yardage, especially on 3rd or 4th and short yardage. He could've easily made yardage a few times with lots of time to slide before getting hit. He's playing big boy football now so he needs to step up.

    WRs dropped passes that should've been caught. Didn't block well on the edges either.

    D played pretty solid but no great players. Just a collection of solid players. Not a ton of depth that I see in back 8 players. Good run stopping D but no top tier edge guy or pass rusher. If QB had been more accurate we would've been in bigger trouble than we were.

    And then there seems to be the WTF special teams plays. We were still in it till Austin muffed that punt. That was a back breaker and crowd went wild after that too. We came apart then.

    D had tough road after muffed punt. I hang this loss primarily on the offense. Leach had a nice, politically correct presser today. He seems to have mellowed since getting into social media doghouse early on. Maybe that's why he's mentioning retiring. It's a different world now. I hope he wasn't as mellow behind closed doors cause IMO some folks, coaches and players, need a good chewing on after the other night.
    We ran mesh and got sacked. We do run inside zone too fast and Will just about pulled one but the RB hit it so fast he couldnt pull it. Will pulled one in the last scrimmage and ran for about 40 yards but some on here think they are faster

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Guess Tom will name his son after Travis at FSU...

    Travis QBR - 88.4
    Will QBR - 41.1
    You are the king of meaningless stats with 0 context

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=msstate7;1449414]
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg View Post

    Holy F, dude. I didn't even blame will for the loss. The whole offense was trash, and yes, that includes will. Here's his stats for lsu...

    24/42 214 yds (5.1 per att) 1 td 1 int
    41.1 QBR
    103.4 passer rating

    That's horrible.

    Even will would argue with you that he played well.

    ETA... and who was favored in our game with lsu?
    How many drops? How many times did he get sacked when his back foot hit the ground? Context. He has def played better. But this is the same board that was so nuts they came up with rumors about Nick Fitzgeralds preferences too

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB**** View Post
    We ran mesh and got sacked. We do run inside zone too fast and Will just about pulled one but the RB hit it so fast he couldnt pull it. Will pulled one in the last scrimmage and ran for about 40 yards but some on here think they are faster
    Will could not out run me and I graduated last century

    My rotator cuff is shot from age and decades of pressing weights so I probably can’t out throw him, but I’d give him a run for his money

    I think Will is set to go on a good run right now, the receivers have to get a lot more aggressive though. If Duck doesn’t show some more toughness he’s going to get replaced.

  13. #33
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    I rewatched a lot of the film from the game saturday after having a few days to lower the negative emotions and dissapointment.

    RT got his ass beat the entire night damn near every play and #63 had a lot of plays were he was just standing there guarding nobody.

    The difference between us and other teams that have "bad" offensive lines is we do not have a Qb that can roll out of the pocket and either

    A. Look downfield for an open receiver
    B. Run for positive yardage
    C. Throw the balls out of bounds and avoid a sack

    Cant do any of those.

    Guys like Hendon hooker, bryce young, Jaxson dart ( hes not really good but he can do what is listed above), Will levis, Jayden Daniels, basically all other 13 sec quarterbacks.

    Im not saying that Will is a horrible QB by no means but him not being able to do that one thing limits the offense so much and makes us so easier to stop.

  14. #34
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    I think Albert Reese is going to get some time at RT. BG would be a good opportunity for him to get some experience.

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    I believe Cowbell said it all. He summed up our problems pretty good I think.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Totally absolving will is as dumb as blaming him entirely imo.

    You said we would beat lsu all season until we didn't. Why was the offense capable before we lost?

    ETA... it sounds like you ready to move on too though, so I'm certainly cool with that. I'd throw the house at Dave clawson. He's proven he can win with a talent deficit using an offense that much better fits the players we typically get here easier than pass first
    And this goes back to what I posted:


    You, and some others, seem to demand that we have a national championship team now and do nothing to earn getting there outside of watching the game. Here is what we can do. Fire everybody, hire somebody that has to start the whole process over. And then in 2 year, we can start the process of demanding that he is fired and do that a few times and look back and see a wasted 10 years.

    Will is the QB for a reason, Sawyer isn't ready. Why would we ever want to put a top rated QB on the field before he is ready? Why would we want to start the whole process over again? This isn't a case where the coach is showing up drunk (Nebraska) or where a coach has allowed the program to pot and players are leaving practice early because they want to and breaking the eye socket of the starting QB in a fight.

    This is a case of a total rebuild to what was needed on defense for a 3-3-5 and a offense that could not throw and catch with massive player issues (listed above). And he is in year 2 (yep.. Covid year doesn't count in my book). We went from 6-7 and being blown out in sec play by Auburn L56-23 , Ten L20-10, LSU L36-13, TAMU L49-30, and Bama L38-7 to competing will all of them but 1 (bama) with mainly Sophomores at the skill positions after having to get rid of players not buying in! LSU L by 3, TAMU won on the road, Ripped the heart out of Auburn! Beat UK. Lost to Ark by 3....



    And Now you are throwing out Dave Clawson stating he works with what we recruit.

    Dave Clawson has been Wake since 2016. That's 6 years! Yet you don't want to give Leach 6? Why on earth would anybody believe you would be ok with giving Clawson 6 years? His record is not great. In conference play, 26–37 is his record at Wake. He has had 1 winning season in conference play in those years and it was in year 5. His first 3 season... 4-19!

    Next you stated "with what we recruit". Leach has raised our recruiting level on offense. We have 2 four star RBs, 7 WRs, and 3 QBs. There is not a season for the next 7 plus years where we will not have a great QB, RB and WRS.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg View Post
    And this goes back to what I posted:


    You, and some others, seem to demand that we have a national championship team now and do nothing to earn getting there outside of watching the game. Here is what we can do. Fire everybody, hire somebody that has to start the whole process over. And then in 2 year, we can start the process of demanding that he is fired and do that a few times and look back and see a wasted 10 years.

    Will is the QB for a reason, Sawyer isn't ready. Why would we ever want to put a top rated QB on the field before he is ready? Why would we want to start the whole process over again? This isn't a case where the coach is showing up drunk (Nebraska) or where a coach has allowed the program to pot and players are leaving practice early because they want to and breaking the eye socket of the starting QB in a fight.

    This is a case of a total rebuild to what was needed on defense for a 3-3-5 and a offense that could not throw and catch with massive player issues (listed above). And he is in year 2 (yep.. Covid year doesn't count in my book). We went from 6-7 and being blown out in sec play by Auburn L56-23 , Ten L20-10, LSU L36-13, TAMU L49-30, and Bama L38-7 to competing will all of them but 1 (bama) with mainly Sophomores at the skill positions after having to get rid of players not buying in! LSU L by 3, TAMU won on the road, Ripped the heart out of Auburn! Beat UK. Lost to Ark by 3....



    And Now you are throwing out Dave Clawson stating he works with what we recruit.

    Dave Clawson has been Wake since 2016. That's 6 years! Yet you don't want to give Leach 6? Why on earth would anybody believe you would be ok with giving Clawson 6 years? His record is not great. In conference play, 26?37 is his record at Wake. He has had 1 winning season in conference play in those years and it was in year 5. His first 3 season... 4-19!

    Next you stated "with what we recruit". Leach has raised our recruiting level on offense. We have 2 four star RBs, 7 WRs, and 3 QBs. There is not a season for the next 7 plus years where we will not have a great QB, RB and WRS.
    Pretty accurate post. I don't get the Clawson love either. If his conference record is as you state, that's pretty bad when you're in the ACC. And FWIW ... Mullen only had one in conference winning season. He had 2 or 3 break even seasons but only 1 winning season.

    ETA: We had our best defense ever that was #1 in the country, a very good returning offense with a returning 1100 yd rusher, all but one returning Olinemen with an NFL stud center, and the 3rd best total offense leader from the year before in 2018 and the new coach took that team to an overall 8-4 / SEC 4-4 record.

    We ain't got none of those parts this year.
    Last edited by dawgday166; 09-20-2022 at 09:28 PM.

  18. #38
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    To quote Will Rogers, “ this offense will go as far as I go.” He had a bad game, so offense had bad game.

  19. #39
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgday166 View Post
    Pretty accurate post. I don't get the Clawson love either. If his conference record is as you state, that's pretty bad when you're in the ACC. And FWIW ... Mullen only had one in conference winning season. He had 2 or 3 break even seasons but only 1 winning season.
    Guess you guys think all schools are equal. WF has 15 bowls in their history; clawson is about to go to his 7th in a row. WF's last HC with a winning % was in the 1930s. Clawson also won a conference title his last year at bowling green before coming to WF.

    ETA... I'll at least give credit to leach when I feel he deserves it. You and you blacksails will forgive any and every performance... incapable of seeing any wrong him in, proud parents
    Last edited by msstate7; 09-20-2022 at 09:37 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Guess you guys think all schools are equal. WF has 15 bowls in their history; clawson is about to go to his 7th in a row. WF's last HC with a winning % was in the 1930s. Clawson also won a conference title his last year at bowling green before coming to WF.

    ETA... I'll at least give credit to leach when I feel he deserves it. You and you blacksails will forgive any and every performance... incapable of seeing any wrong him in, proud parents
    I'm not forgiving the performance. I've said Leach needs to chew on some coaches and players for the other night. I'm comparing Leach mostly to Mullen. And the comparisons are pretty damn close. Jackie set a standard, Croom destroyed it. Mullen built it back up, Moorhead destroyed it. Now it's Leach's turn and he needs some time. Changing out coaches every three years ain't gonna get us nowhere.

    Clawson is ok but what makes him great. And if he comes here and does do even what Mullen did ... how much will he shop himself around at the end of the year? How long before he bolts to a blue blood too?

    ETA: I will also add that games like the other night happen to every single team in this league not named Bama or GA. It's not like it's a once a decade type of thing. It's more like 10 times or better/season across the whole SEC. That's what playing in the SEC is. You take your auto losses to Bama & GA (and occasionally LSU) and everyone else fights it out for 2nd thru 7th in their respective divisions. And preseason predictions for those 12 slots are mostly bullshit.
    Last edited by dawgday166; 09-20-2022 at 09:52 PM.

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