I?ll never forgive MOORHEAD

[TrapGame]

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

We weren't a playoff team but we could have won 10 games that year. We were built to have a really good season on both sides of the ball.

[FISHDAWG]

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

not saying we would have won a National Championship in 2018 ... I'm saying we were a 10 win team (maybe 11 win) and JoMo blew it.... As C-34 stated earlier, look at our 4 year pattern - 2010, 2014, 2018 (what might have been) and now 2022 (good expectations) .... I agree we are not known for being an offensive juggernaut but when we have the talet + good coaching then good things happen ... JoMo was like a roadblock to that in 2018

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Agreed. Worse than the Croom hire which was the 2nd worst hire in the history of college football.

Moorhead makes people like you delusional.

He wasn't the greatest coach, but comparing him to Croom is asinine. in Croom's 5 years here, we were pitiful.

I think everyone's "He was a great guy" mindset has clouded people's minds about how terrible of a coach he was. We were probably the worst Power 5 team in the nation in 2004.

[NCMSTFAN]

We weren't a playoff team but we could have won 10 games that year. We were built to have a really good season on both sides of the ball.

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

[NCMSTFAN]

not saying we would have won a National Championship in 2018 ... I'm saying we were a 10 win team (maybe 11 win) and JoMo blew it.... As C-34 stated earlier, look at our 4 year pattern - 2010, 2014, 2018 (what might have been) and now 2022 (good expectations) .... I agree we are not known for being an offensive juggernaut but when we have the talet + good coaching then good things happen ... JoMo was like a roadblock to that in 2018

I understand your points but come on man, the title of this thread is "I'll never forgive Moorhead"....... are we really that delusional as fans to act like he completely dismantled our program to a place it can't come back from when in all actuality he stayed on par with the type of winning/losing we are accustomed to at MSU? It's just kinda overboard in my opinion, we weren't winning a NC that year regardless.

[TrapGame]

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

Well, he did ruin our program. And it's weird for me that some people can't see that. We had a spread offense designed for a power run w/ short passes to keep the defense honest.

[DownwardDawg]

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

Mullen or a similar mindset coach would have easily won 10 games. I believe Mullen would have won 11 games that year. That's a playoff team. Probably would have gotten beat in the first round, but with the nations #1 defense, who knows.

[confucius say]

They are talented- no doubt. They lost alot of players and are lacking experience. Experience matters. We are a developmental program and when we are a veteran team we are always pretty good. 2010 won 9 games. 2014 we contended for the NC. 2018 we were loaded and Moorhead ruined it. Now it's 2022. We will be very good and are at home. Georgia better come to play

Ken Griffey Jr was hell at 9 years old- but alot of 12 year olds were still better because of maturity even tho they didnt make it to MLB. Georgia lost alot of defensive players and while talented- they have alot of inexperience out there. Supposedly the Air Raid takes advantage of shit like that. Advantage us

Hope so.

[FISHDAWG]

I understand your points but come on man, the title of this thread is "I'll never forgive Moorhead"....... are we really that delusional as fans to act like he completely dismantled our program to a place it can't come back from when in all actuality he stayed on par with the type of winning/losing we are accustomed to at MSU? It's just kinda overboard in my opinion, we weren't winning a NC that year regardless.

I'll buy that ... I don't hold animosity against JoMo - I keep pulling for him at the other schools. And yes he didn't "destroy" our program - just our occasional chance at a really good year to be proud of. But that was 4 years ago and we are just now recovering ... not to mention we just don't have that many chances at a really good year and we hate to lose even one of those chances ... here's to hoping Leach can give us more consistency

[confucius say]

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

Joe took over a team ready to win big with the best defense in the country. He could have not thrown a pass more than 5 yards down field and went 9-3. Probably 10-2. Maybe 11-1.

Leach took over the dumpster fire Joe left off the field and ushered in an entirely new system that was contrary to what we have done for 120 years.

[confucius say]

Moorhead makes people like you delusional.

He wasn't the greatest coach, but comparing him to Croom is asinine. in Croom's 5 years here, we were pitiful.

I think everyone's "He was a great guy" mindset has clouded people's minds about how terrible of a coach he was. We were probably the worst Power 5 team in the nation in 2004.

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.

[confucius say]

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

He killed our culture. Zero accountability, soft, horrible S&C, off field train wreck, security called to hotel the night before games. It was a crap show because he didn't hold anybody accountable. He had a freaking S&C guy who looked like a soft marshmallow.

The only reason he didn't completely ruin the program was because he was fired in the middle of doing so.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.

He would have ran the ball up the middle 3 times in a row and punted. We would have routinely lost games 9-0 with our 150 yards of total offense- which we did all the time.

[confucius say]

He would have ran the ball up the middle 3 times in a row and punted. We would have routinely lost games 9-0 with our 150 yards of total offense- which we did all the time.

Not with an all pro center in Jenkins, a veteran good OL, the best running qb in sec history, an nfl rb, and Aries. Running every play would have been better than what Joe was doing. Joe had 200 yards of offense against KY and Fla. Croom could have done that.
We wouldn't have thrown 4 picks at lsu and given them the game.

I'm no Croom defender, but given the same 2018 team as Joe and the best defense in America, I think he could have went 8-4 like Joe.

[TrapGame]

Not with an all pro center in Jenkins, a veteran good OL, the best running qb in sec history, an nfl rb, and Aries. Running every play would have been better than what Joe was doing. Joe had 200 yards of offense against KY and Fla. Croom could have done that.
We wouldn't have thrown 4 picks at lsu and given them the game.

I'm no Croom defender, but given the same 2018 team as Joe and the best defense in America, I think he could have went 8-4 like Joe.

Croom was as hardheaded as Joe. Whatever you think he would have done, he wouldn't have. He would have run that West Coast cluster of a offense.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.

Croom would have went 7-6 or 8-5. Stoops, Mullen, Saban, O, and Jimbo would have coached circles around him. Hell this is the same guy who let Derek Dooley, Houston Nutt, and Rich Brooks coach circles around him in 2008. Not exactly hall of fame level coaches

Actually come to think of it there is no way possible would have won 7 with Croom in 18

[NCMSTFAN]

Well, he did ruin our program. And it's weird for me that some people can't see that. We had a spread offense designed for a power run w/ short passes to keep the defense honest.

He ruined our program? So let me get this straight...he stayed on par with the average winning percentage that we have sustained for the last 15 years or so, but he ruined our program? Why are some of you acting like we've been a top 3 SEC football team for the last 20 years? Moorhead did not ruin our program, he wasn't a good fit and had disciplinary issues but that's a far cry from ruining a program.

[NCMSTFAN]

I'll buy that ... I don't hold animosity against JoMo - I keep pulling for him at the other schools. And yes he didn't "destroy" our program - just our occasional chance at a really good year to be proud of. But that was 4 years ago and we are just now recovering ... not to mention we just don't have that many chances at a really good year and we hate to lose even one of those chances ... here's to hoping Leach can give us more consistency

Good post and I agree with that

[NCMSTFAN]

Joe took over a team ready to win big with the best defense in the country. He could have not thrown a pass more than 5 yards down field and went 9-3. Probably 10-2. Maybe 11-1.

Leach took over the dumpster fire Joe left off the field and ushered in an entirely new system that was contrary to what we have done for 120 years.

Leach had mostly all of his guys last year and will have that again this year, lets just wait and see what happens. I personally don't have any more faith in Leach and this system than most of you had in Moorhead. I believe Leach's teams are more disciplined but I'm nowhere near sold on Leach. In my opinion this is the year for him to prove something. I don't want to hear the tough schedule excuse either.

[NCMSTFAN]

He killed our culture. Zero accountability, soft, horrible S&C, off field train wreck, security called to hotel the night before games. It was a crap show because he didn't hold anybody accountable. He had a freaking S&C guy who looked like a soft marshmallow.

The only reason he didn't completely ruin the program was because he was fired in the middle of doing so.

I agree..... with all that said, that means he ruined our program? Some of you are overly dramatic about that. Again, he wasn't an ideal fit, but how can you ruin a middle to low of the pack SEC team by pretty much winning the same amount of games that your prior peer coaches won? He had cultural issues, that's his knock....but that's not ruining a program