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Thread: Some important NIL info and updates

  1. #21
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    It's not to be the "winner" it's to stay competitive. Keeping tyrus wheat, keeping tulu. Getting baseball guys that don't get shit in scholarship. That's a big deal. No we won't get a guy gettin a million. Correct. But not everyone needs a million either... which is sort of your point w "state" guys. Evals never have been nor ever will be perfect. Just keep working and plugging.
    That doesn't even make sense. Those guys aren't going to command big money. Wheat isn't even a draft guy or he'd have been gone. We can get those guys anyway.
    If all were going to offer is what we get now, that doesn't improve our situation. We'll be able to offer that kind of money anyway with what we expect to get.
    Unless we can find some super secret loophole to funnel TV money to NIL, we will never advance. We can't even compete with a Central Florida money wise.
    Last edited by Cooterpoot; 06-27-2022 at 09:05 PM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    That doesn't even make sense. Those guys aren't going to command big money. Wheat isn't even a draft guy or he'd have been gone. We can get those guys anyway.
    If all were going to offer is what we get now, that doesn't improve our situation. We'll be able to offer that kind of money anyway with what we expect to get.
    Wheat is poised to be a top 3 round draft pick if not top 2
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    That doesn't even make sense. Those guys aren't going to command big money. Wheat isn't even a draft guy or he'd have been gone. We can get those guys anyway.
    If all were going to offer is what we get now, that doesn't improve our situation. We'll be able to offer that kind of money anyway with what we expect to get.
    Wheat was gone until we paid him.

    Our NIL arrangements pre Charlie were Preston Johnson reading an ad for William Wells and Will Rogers getting free BBQ at Moe?s. Frankly it was embarrassing. We?ve started getting organized under Charlie but have so much ground to make up. Instead of paying recruits we?re having to pay current players not to transfer. We?re not prepared enough to get a guy like Mosley demanding $250k.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawdawg View Post
    Asking 100 people for $100,000 a year indefinitely is attainable?
    No

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    That doesn't even make sense. Those guys aren't going to command big money. Wheat isn't even a draft guy or he'd have been gone. We can get those guys anyway.
    If all were going to offer is what we get now, that doesn't improve our situation. We'll be able to offer that kind of money anyway with what we expect to get.
    Unless we can find some super secret loophole to funnel TV money to NIL, we will never advance. We can't even compete with a Central Florida money wise.
    Doesnt make sense?? We kept two all sec type players for way less money than what they could have left for. So you don't want wheat and tulu? If that's the case you have lost your mind But carry on

  6. #26
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawdawg View Post
    Wheat was gone until we paid him.

    Our NIL arrangements pre Charlie were Preston Johnson reading an ad for William Wells and Will Rogers getting free BBQ at Moe?s. Frankly it was embarrassing. We?ve started getting organized under Charlie but have so much ground to make up. Instead of paying recruits we?re having to pay current players not to transfer. We?re not prepared enough to get a guy like Mosley demanding $250k.
    This is what our fanbase has got to understand and understand immediately. We are in the middle of the food chain. We arent the shark. Not only do we have to pay recruits and portal guys- we have to pay our own guys not to leave. Its not all of them- but it is a significant amount. You dont think other big programs want Marks? Wheat? Forbes? Tolu? Cade Smith? Hunter Hines? These guys are being offered money now to leave for the blue bloods.

    This is college sports now
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  7. #27
    Tha Winnah! ScoobaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    That doesn't even make sense. Those guys aren't going to command big money. Wheat isn't even a draft guy or he'd have been gone. We can get those guys anyway.
    If all were going to offer is what we get now, that doesn't improve our situation. We'll be able to offer that kind of money anyway with what we expect to get.
    Unless we can find some super secret loophole to funnel TV money to NIL, we will never advance. We can't even compete with a Central Florida money wise.
    Cooter I have always liked you but stop Mississippian this post. This post is about change and moving forward. If you wanna keep your damn head in the sand screaming what we can't do.. Just go to a different topic.

    Best post in a long time coach. I'd love to support where I can. And love to learn more about what Charlies plans are.. And what the agreement for pay is with the agreement. I've read alot about what the UT Message board has done since nil became legal and always wanted to get ED Involved like that somehow.

    You have to also incentivize the donors also as you said. Instead of blindly asking for $100 blindly.. Ask for $250 and that gets you into a group with access to an hour AMA with a player sometime during the season.
    Many other ideas...

  8. #28
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Charlie is willing to talk with anyone wanting to help. We discussed having a Zoom with guys ready to participate and organize. This should happen and be the move going forward.

    Pull the rope

    Edited- I told him Elitedawgs would do anything possible to help. This board was formed for Miss State success. It will continue to be so- even though I dont have the final say
    Last edited by Coach34; 06-27-2022 at 09:38 PM.
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  9. #29
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    I am confused about D, decrease Bulldog Club donation & give most to NIL. Won't this be "borrowing from Peter to pay Paul"? A lot of Bulldog Club $ pays scholarships across all sports and many other costs I probably don't even know about.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldendawg View Post
    I am confused about D, decrease Bulldog Club donation & give most to NIL. Won't this be "borrowing from Peter to pay Paul"? A lot of Bulldog Club $ pays scholarships across all sports and many other costs I probably don't even know about.
    NIL pays for the player. BDC pays for their education. You have to have to player before you can send them to school.

  11. #31
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    . This whole NIL business is going to end up with a salary cap just like MLB. That’s the only solution.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    That doesn't even make sense. Those guys aren't going to command big money. Wheat isn't even a draft guy or he'd have been gone. We can get those guys anyway.
    If all were going to offer is what we get now, that doesn't improve our situation. We'll be able to offer that kind of money anyway with what we expect to get.
    Unless we can find some super secret loophole to funnel TV money to NIL, we will never advance. We can't even compete with a Central Florida money wise.
    We can't offer that money because we're just starting. We have to at least try to offer our fans the opportunity to give. I tell people about the Bulldog Initiative all the time and a lot of the time they're like "Gee I didn't know about that. I'd like to give to that. Man I wish they had a web site (they will) because I don't use venmo."

    But damn- give the people who were willing to spend 60 million dollars to build a baseball stadium the equivalent of the best minor league stadiums in the country a chance before writing them off.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. I'm saying we're pissing in the wind if certain schools want to blow our doors off in the NIL world. Not a thing we can do about that. Hell, our baseball is already in a good spot. Football never will be. Neither will basketball. The reality of it is that we just can't do it like some expect or want. And all the NIL isn't going to go to baseball. It's going to get split up. That's a bigger issue for us than those with more money.
    And if you look right now, I think only one SEC school has more transfers in baseball than us unless something changed I missed. If we land the four were hard on, we're set. I'd love to be able to grab a couple others too but not sure that's an option with numbers.
    Last edited by Cooterpoot; 06-27-2022 at 10:38 PM.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. I'm saying we're pissing in the wind if certain schools want to blow our doors off in the NIL world. Not a thing we can do about that. Hell, our baseball is already in a good spot. Football never will be. Neither will basketball. The reality of it is that we just can't do it like some expect or want. And all the NIL isn't going to go to baseball. It's going to get split up. That's a bigger issue for us than those with more money.
    And if you look right now, I think only one SEC school has more transfers in baseball than us unless something changed I missed. If we land the four were hard on, we're set. I'd love to be able to grab a couple others too but not sure that's an option with numbers.
    You give 10k? You can earmark for baseball
    You give $10/month? It’s to the general fund

    Pretty simple concept
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  15. #35
    Senior Member TheLostDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawdawg View Post
    NIL pays for the player. BDC pays for their education. You have to have to player before you can send them to school.
    Also the bdc is going to get their share from required donations from ticket shares. Can give the all other to NIL and hopefully benefit from it though signed whatever, etc

  16. #36
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    If schools will offer $9.5MM in football, they'll offer a couple mil in baseball, at the places that care, just to pull a borderline draft guy. No matter what we do, it's impossible to compete at the money game. Doesn't matter how competitive we want to be.
    We're going to be what we are. And we aren't missing on many guys anyway. We're failing to recruit some of the right guys "because they aren't State guys". That's our biggest problem. We purposely limit ourselves with our approach anyway. Do you think a "State kid" is after big money? Nope. That's why they're "State kids". It's like we're damn Stanford, recruiting guys chasing an education. Hell, wait til you see what Vandy is about to do.
    We can't win the money game. And honestly, in baseball, it's far less important because anything can happen in baseball. See the best team in America this year. Sat at home after the super. The last damn team in won it all.
    The thing about SEC baseball is this. Just like any other SEC sports you're going to have schools that care more about certain sports- Alabama with football, Kentucky with basketball, MSU with baseball. I think any team in the SEC outside of maybe Kentucky has a realistic chance at winning a National Title. Let's be honest- a SEC team with a losing conference record just won it that has one of the worst baseball histories and smallest footprints in the league. The portal has killed the PAC 12 as their best players are coming to the SEC and the SEC just absorbed two of the better programs out of the Big 12 including their best baseball program historically with the most resources in Texas. All the ACC has is Florida State and Miami- maaaayyybeeee North Carolina. So yeah- it's going to be competitive. But at the same time look at Tennessee- they absolutely maxed out on attendance this year during the Super Regional with a loaded team that was their best in history and I doubt that crowd would have cracked our top 50. Baseball is never going to overtake football at Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn, and probably even Texas A&M. I know that because Florida and Georgia have both won titles and they still draw jack squat. Heck- I kind of doubt that baseball will overtake football even at Ole Miss. Vandy has only been good because of their endowment. It sure isn't because of fan support. And that's about to end with the scholarship changes in about a month. And sure you have Mississippi State, LSU, Arkansas, Texas, Ole Miss, and probably at some point again South Carolina that care about baseball more than others do too.

    As far as "anything can happen in baseball"- that's true but there is a common denominator and that's having really good pitching. If we can get to the point where we have a Bednar and Small going 1-2 like Vanderbilt did last year and Tennessee did this year then we'll have a good chance to go deep into the postseason. Especially with a coach who has shown that he can push the right buttons with the right players. And sure we'll have to pay for it.

    But the thing is you have to understand that baseball players aren't like basketball players trying to get the most money possible. They're trying to get to MLB so that they can hopefully get a big payday when their first big free agent contract comes up. A lot of kids in Mississippi were like me- yeah I wanted to play for the Cardinals growing up first but I also wanted to go to MSU and be a part of our program as well. Baseball players know that they have a higher chance of making MLB if they play college baseball. And most of them want to play in the SEC. Now yeah- they may have to go to USM and develop a little bit first. But if that happens then they can get into the portal and come to MSU and then go pro.

    So my point in saying all of that is for baseball players in the portal the money isn't super crazy high like it is for football or basketball. At least at this time. I'm just talking about solely in the portal. 200-225K is top end for the most coveted players. We can afford that. Especially for a player that's likely to be here for a year.

    Then you have our returning guys. A guy like Houston Harding might get 125K to sign with the Angels after his junior year. Well if we offer him 75K in NIL to come back for his senior year he'll end up making money and getting a degree. Because he'll still get the minimum after his senior year. So he made money by coming back to school. Those returning senior players can be the difference between a championship and not getting one- see Tanner Allen, Tim Elko, and whoever LSU used to get to come back for their senior year during the Bertman era. And then with more scholarships you're going to have fewer players needing the money to pay off student loans.

    The recruits are a little trickier. We're still not going to be able to compete with MLB for first round picks. Someone that maybe would have been a third round pick in the past? Maybe. Someone that would have been a fifth round pick? Yes. In time will we be able to get potential first round picks to school? Who knows? That is going to cost millions and we're probably years from that. We'll see how it goes over time.

    At the end of the day I really believe that once we get this going we're going to be able to be very competitive with the rest of the SEC and the nation as well. But it's a matter of getting it going. And then up to the coaches to identify and bring in those players to MSU.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLostDawg View Post
    Also the bdc is going to get their share from required donations from ticket shares. Can give the all other to NIL and hopefully benefit from it though signed whatever, etc
    I don't believe the Bulldog Club can do that.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    I don't believe the Bulldog Club can do that.
    You literally have to make a bulldog club donation per seat when you buy season tickets. So yea they can do that and they have been for years.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. I'm saying we're pissing in the wind if certain schools want to blow our doors off in the NIL world. Not a thing we can do about that. Hell, our baseball is already in a good spot. Football never will be. Neither will basketball. The reality of it is that we just can't do it like some expect or want. And all the NIL isn't going to go to baseball. It's going to get split up. That's a bigger issue for us than those with more money.
    And if you look right now, I think only one SEC school has more transfers in baseball than us unless something changed I missed. If we land the four were hard on, we're set. I'd love to be able to grab a couple others too but not sure that's an option with numbers.
    We have three players from the portal right now. LSU who everyone is freaking out about has four- one from Creighton. We have more commits from the portal right now than Arkansas and Tennessee combined.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    You literally have to make a bulldog club donation per seat when you buy season tickets. So yea they can do that and they have been for years.
    That's different. I can double check with Charlie but I think it's because the Bulldog Club is through MSU and MSU can't give money to NIL.

    That's why NIL is through "collectives".

    And honestly if it was allowed and maybe I'm wrong- the easy thing to do would be to take NIL out of our Bulldog Club donations.

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