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Thread: 2023 MSU FOOTBALL RECRUITING Discussion Thread

  1. #81
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    I’m not sure Al or Tenn top 25 is superior to Miss top 25 every year.

    Walter Payton getting overlooked has to be the worst blunder in the history of sports lol. It’s like cutting Babe Ruth in little league.

  2. #82
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetEdDawg View Post
    I get your thought here and I want to recruit MS hard. We have to.

    But here's what I will say. Everyone uses the example of Favre, Payton, and Rice. Do we have have any examples over the last 20-25 years of overlooked guys that made an impact in the league from MS that's anywhere close to the impact they made? Certainly we've had some make a huge impact for us. McKinney is a big one.

    I struggle to find someone using modern day scouting and evaluation that just gets overlooked. Chris Jones is the closest comparison, but he was a 5 star by the time his recruitment ended.

    I want in state 4 star guys. They pan out a good percent of the time. But we aren't talking about not taking MS 4 stars for out of state 3 stars. I'm talking about spots 15-25 of a class. Are we really getting the bang for our time and efforts out of the MS guys that are the last 7-10 guys of a class? Go back and look over the last decade and you will see a lot of not great both at MSU and other schools.

    The Top 25 in Mississippi every year doesn't have 25 SEC caliber players. The Top 25 in AL, TX, TN, FL, GA, and LA does. We've got to dig into the depths of other states. There's a reason other decent schools aren't coming into MS and taking players outside the Top 15 in the state. Lowest ranked MS player taken by a good out of state SEC school in 2022 was ranked 13. Lowest ranked AL player taken by a good out of state SEC school in 2022 was at 42.

    We've got to go out of state to fill out more of class. Can't abandon MS completely, but the data has always shown the state of MS can't support the talent for 2 SEC teams to be competitive year in and year out.
    Met - I think this is pretty spot on. It was real easy to overlook those guys in the 70s and 80s because scouting was so limited. The internet, staff sizes, 7v7 camps, etc have ended that. Farve was really the last one - but Farve was kind of the Nick Fitzgerald of the 80s. He ran QB in a wishbone offense and rarely threw more than 5 times a game. Southern was his only offer. Even McNair wasn't exactly overlooked, teams wanted him on defense instead of QB. People forget McNair was All-State as a QB, but All-American as a Safety in HS. He bet on himself as a QB and won.

    The thing about MS high schools vs. AL, TX, GA etc is money. MS schools for the most part can't match the investment in development that kids in those states get. I look at the high school here that took our old middle school gym and converted it into a football only facility with nutrition area, state of the art weight room, a small IDP, training room with ice pool and sauna, film rooms for each position group, tutoring rooms, and pay the Head Coach $140,000 a year and think "damn, this is nicer than some FCS schools have it". Kids on the team practically live there year round. We don't have fat kids playing OL/DL like when I was in school, they are chiseled athletes at 16.
    And we are small time compared to some of the Metro ATL schools and legendary south Georgia programs like Valdosta, Colquitt, Lowndes or Camden. And Glynn Academy doesn't even put as many kids in D1 as our cross-town rival Brunswick High - who seem to have a D1 OL or DB every single year. So, unless MS high schools can start matching $ with schools in surrounding states, we are going to have to focus much broader than in the past because we can't take the time to red-shirt the entire Freshman class of MS kids anymore so they can get in shape and learn the game.
    Last edited by BrunswickDawg; 06-23-2022 at 12:48 PM.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
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  3. #83
    Senior Member MetEdDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeyPirate View Post
    I?m not sure Al or Tenn top 25 is superior to Miss top 25 every year.

    Walter Payton getting overlooked has to be the worst blunder in the history of sports lol. It?s like cutting Babe Ruth in little league.
    Go look at how the Top 25 in those states are getting recruited then get back to me. A lot of people think the same thing as you until they actually go look at the data. The data shows the Top 25 in both of those states is significantly deeper than it is in MS.

    And like I said in my earlier post. If you can find someone in the modern recruiting era from MS that is similar to the 3 that always get mentioned as being overlooked, I would like to know who they are. Because I don't think they exist.

    Too many fans continue to think that MS is on par with other states from a depth of talent perspective. It's simply not the case folks and there isn't any data out there to support it. Sure we've got the high per capita NFL player stat. But per capita doesn't build consistent winning football teams when you don't have a lot of high end players to begin with. 25 of the Top 50 in MS signed a P5 scholarship in 2022. 36 in Alabama did.

    Number of P5 schools represented in the 36 from Alabama? 23. Number of P5 schools represented in the 25 committed from Mississippi in 2022? 13. So of the 25 that signed P5, that means 11 other P5 teams took some of our talent. That's almost half. And 5 of those 11 took someone from the Top 10 in the state.

    We need to modernize our thinking. Recruiting isn't local anymore. It's regional and national. If we think we can win just taking MS talent, we are already behind the 8 ball because we aren't going to get every recruit in MS period. And even if we did, it's not enough to sustain a program at an SEC level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog View Post
    The only problem with going with an in-state philosophy is that you get stuck with kids that aren't SEC material. I think coaches need to be able to show kids the portal. I don't like it, but if we are going to play in the SEC, what I want to do is let USM sign a bunch of in-state kids and the ones that develop can transfer to MSU after USM develops them.

    Why waste a scholarship for two years, let USM do the heavy lifting and then let them transfer to a real school. It is the new normal.
    Leach has said many times, he will not just take a player simply because he is from Mississippi. He really evaluates them and if there is a guy he can get better elsewhere, he will do so but he also said he won't fly over a guy to get a similar guy either.

    The key is either you trust his offers or you don't. So far, all of his offers in-state have seemed like legit offers to me and SEC level athletes.

  5. #85
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    Big difference between the 25th rated player in Mississippi vs 25th rated player in Georgia. We used to recruit Georgia especially Atlanta area very hard.

  6. #86
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    Big difference between the 25th rated player in Mississippi vs 25th rated player in Georgia. We used to recruit Georgia especially Atlanta area very hard.
    I had actually forgotten how many we used to get. I remember Jackie always grabbing 3-4, and for every Walt Harris he landed he got a Rodney Hudson. But, I went and scrolled thru 24/7's class info, and I was surprised at how many Jackie and Croom brought in. Jackie usually had 3-4 split between freshman and JUCOs from Middle Georgia or Georgia Military (who were the EMCC of the late 90s and early 00s), but Croom brought in 6 GA kids in '05 and also almost always had 3-4. That number really dwindled under Mullen to 1 or 2 a year at most - although he got some real good ones in Slay, Preston Smith, & Fitz. Sloppy Joe signed 1. And Leach seems a little more interested - he signed two this year and got the UGA transfer WR who is from GA. Leach and staff have also participated in HS camps at Valdosta State each year - so they are out there looking.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  7. #87
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    Thompkins used to kill it in GA.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetEdDawg View Post
    I get your thought here and I want to recruit MS hard. We have to.

    But here's what I will say. Everyone uses the example of Favre, Payton, and Rice. Do we have have any examples over the last 20-25 years of overlooked guys that made an impact in the league from MS that's anywhere close to the impact they made? Certainly we've had some make a huge impact for us. McKinney is a big one.

    I struggle to find someone using modern day scouting and evaluation that just gets overlooked. Chris Jones is the closest comparison, but he was a 5 star by the time his recruitment ended.

    I want in state 4 star guys. They pan out a good percent of the time. But we aren't talking about not taking MS 4 stars for out of state 3 stars. I'm talking about spots 15-25 of a class. Are we really getting the bang for our time and efforts out of the MS guys that are the last 7-10 guys of a class? Go back and look over the last decade and you will see a lot of not great both at MSU and other schools.

    The Top 25 in Mississippi every year doesn't have 25 SEC caliber players. The Top 25 in AL, TX, TN, FL, GA, and LA does. We've got to dig into the depths of other states. There's a reason other decent schools aren't coming into MS and taking players outside the Top 15 in the state. Lowest ranked MS player taken by a good out of state SEC school in 2022 was ranked 13. Lowest ranked AL player taken by a good out of state SEC school in 2022 was at 42.

    We've got to go out of state to fill out more of class. Can't abandon MS completely, but the data has always shown the state of MS can't support the talent for 2 SEC teams to be competitive year in and year out.
    Those three are among the top 25 players of all time- two are easily top 5. That's a really high bar.

    I can think of a few that we had that were overlooked- Eric Moulds, Jonthan Banks, from back in that era of Payton and Rice we had Kent Hull who was overlooked out of high school, Fred Smoot, JT Gray who Dan should have started- he's a pro bowler. Darius Slay came from a Mississippi JUCO even though he is from Georgia. We may say the same thing about Walley who was underrated one day.

  9. #89
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  10. #90
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    Georgia pickups are generally great!

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldawg28 View Post
    Georgia pickups are generally great!
    Dudes a beast. Watch his film, and look at his offer sheet. 6-3 205 now will be 6-3 and 220 with YAC.

  12. #92
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    We have one elite rated instate recruit left on our roster, the other was landed by Moorhead 4 years ago, and is now in the NFL. We used to do better here, and could mix those kids with the hidden gems and developmental kids for our best recipe for success. More of these former guys are leaving the state now, and I don't know if that can change, even a little with the NIL in play.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops View Post
    We have one elite rated instate recruit left on our roster, the other was landed by Moorhead 4 years ago, and is now in the NFL. We used to do better here, and could mix those kids with the hidden gems and developmental kids for our best recipe for success. More of these former guys are leaving the state now, and I don't know if that can change, even a little with the NIL in play.
    Trevion Williams is an elite Instate kid. He just didn’t get that big late ratings bump like others because he didn’t get the AA game performance like others.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew View Post
    Trevion Williams is an elite Instate kid. He just didn’t get that big late ratings bump like others because he didn’t get the AA game performance like others.
    Definitely

    If you can stack classes like last years, you can win a lot of games IMO. I’ll take classes like 2022 every year.

  15. #95
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    Hubbard committed to AL. You can mark him off the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Hubbard committed to AL. You can mark him off the list.
    He didn’t have the mechanics or intangibles to play q b for Leach but I think he’s going to ride the bench four years at Bama or transfer out. Great athlete but there will be too many five stars ahead of him. Bad decision.

  17. #97
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    Dude, he’s going as a DB, not a QB.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
    Dude, he’s going as a DB, not a QB.
    Correct and we were recruiting him as a WR.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
    Dude, he’s going as a DB, not a QB.
    I know that. I think he could have played q b and done well at a school like Kansas state or Nebraska. Doesn’t change the fact he won’t see the field at Bama

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Hubbard committed to AL. You can mark him off the list.
    No

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