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Thread: 2023 MSU FOOTBALL RECRUITING Discussion Thread

  1. #61
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Forget about rankings. Look at the offers. MS rarely, if ever, has 25 kids that can be good in the SEC in a class.

  2. #62
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    Saw where Caleb Bryant committed to Utah.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZedFedder View Post
    Saw where Caleb Bryant committed to Utah.
    Seriously doubt that sticks

  4. #64
    Senior Member bulldawg28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeyPirate View Post
    Their instate rankings is what I look at. Kids ranked from 10-25 instate have been the norm for a long time now, correct. This kid looks like a keeper.
    In-state ratings are based on where they're committed. Watch this kid state rating will increase now that's he's committed.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldawg28 View Post
    In-state ratings are based on where they're committed. Watch this kid state rating will increase now that's he's committed.
    What I’m saying is in state kids in the top 25 have been the mainstay of recruiting and that’s pretty much what this class is so far. Top 5 or 10 kids is where NIL is going to be in play as will the four star out of state kids. I think a class like last year is still doable, which was a good class IMO.

  6. #66
    Senior Member bulldawg28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeyPirate View Post
    What I?m saying is in state kids in the top 25 have been the mainstay of recruiting and that?s pretty much what this class is so far. Top 5 or 10 kids is where NIL is going to be in play as will the four star out of state kids. I think a class like last year is still doable, which was a good class IMO.
    Gotcha, agreed

  7. #67
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    One interesting tid bit this year is LK and staff are not putting an emphasis on in state kids. Are they recruiting some? Yes, but they are focusing on out of state players and will use the portal. It's an interesting concept that I don't this is sustainable long term. You will continue to see us doing well in state other than maybe one or two that are just hell bent on going out of state.

  8. #68
    Senior Member MetEdDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan77 View Post
    One interesting tid bit this year is LK and staff are not putting an emphasis on in state kids. Are they recruiting some? Yes, but they are focusing on out of state players and will use the portal. It's an interesting concept that I don't this is sustainable long term. You will continue to see us doing well in state other than maybe one or two that are just hell bent on going out of state.
    I actually think it's smart to start working out of state. The big boys have proven they WILL come into MS and take a portion of the Top 10 guys in state and we have to adjust to that.

    The depth of talent in the state is not enough to support the rosters of MSU and OM while also hemorrhaging top tier talent to the big boys.

    We need to start doing the same thing if we want to compete. Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, Georgia, and Louisiana have depth of talent that we can capitalize on.

    3 of the Top 10 in the 2023 cycle in MS are committed out of state. Will those 3 stay that way? Maybe not. But MS currently has five 4 stars this cycle. Every surrounding state has at least triple that number.

    MS does have a lot of overlooked talent. We know that. But out of state is the way to go when it comes to being able to compete. We still need to find overlooked talent in MS. But we've got to push out of state more to fill our roster because there's a lot of talent to be had there.

  9. #69
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    My personal opinion but we need to live and die with MS kids that the program matters to. And get some more MS guys on staff especially in the off field parts. Im not sure Dudek gets it.

    Recruit TX AL LA FL and GA. Memphis. Leave everything else alone

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan77 View Post
    One interesting tid bit this year is LK and staff are not putting an emphasis on in state kids. Are they recruiting some? Yes, but they are focusing on out of state players and will use the portal. It's an interesting concept that I don't this is sustainable long term. You will continue to see us doing well in state other than maybe one or two that are just hell bent on going out of state.
    Ole miss coaches have openly told a lot of HS coaches this exact thing. It will hurt them in time if not this year.

    Will Hall and USM are going to be back sooner than you think. They are doing a great job with MS kids and HS coaches

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB**** View Post
    Ole miss coaches have openly told a lot of HS coaches this exact thing. It will hurt them in time if not this year.

    Will Hall and USM are going to be back sooner than you think. They are doing a great job with MS kids and HS coaches
    The only problem with going with an in-state philosophy is that you get stuck with kids that aren't SEC material. I think coaches need to be able to show kids the portal. I don't like it, but if we are going to play in the SEC, what I want to do is let USM sign a bunch of in-state kids and the ones that develop can transfer to MSU after USM develops them.

    Why waste a scholarship for two years, let USM do the heavy lifting and then let them transfer to a real school. It is the new normal.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog View Post
    The only problem with going with an in-state philosophy is that you get stuck with kids that aren't SEC material. I think coaches need to be able to show kids the portal. I don't like it, but if we are going to play in the SEC, what I want to do is let USM sign a bunch of in-state kids and the ones that develop can transfer to MSU after USM develops them.

    Why waste a scholarship for two years, let USM do the heavy lifting and then let them transfer to a real school. It is the new normal.
    Those kids arent just going to up and leave. And if they do im not sure they are ones that you want anyway. These arent robots they are human beings. Relationships and trust still matter.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZedFedder View Post
    Saw where Caleb Bryant committed to Utah.
    Coach Bump doing work!

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    A plus for the air raid is it will always get looks from q bs and receivers that might otherwise not consider you. I think Leach still has a lot of connections with Texas HS coaches and will continue to pull recruits from that state. Louisiana is the other state that is talent rich and will always have a few players who don’t get offers from LSU but are sec level players.

    I think the portal will help us. It really won’t help the blue bloods but there will be starter quality players buried on the depth chart who will be looking to play in the air raid or an sec defense.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog View Post
    The only problem with going with an in-state philosophy is that you get stuck with kids that aren't SEC material. I think coaches need to be able to show kids the portal. I don't like it, but if we are going to play in the SEC, what I want to do is let USM sign a bunch of in-state kids and the ones that develop can transfer to MSU after USM develops them.

    Why waste a scholarship for two years, let USM do the heavy lifting and then let them transfer to a real school. It is the new normal.
    What you seem to be missing is that there are 12-18 Mississippi guys that are SEC quality every year. You get all of them you can and hit TX, LA, AL, GA and Fla to get up to 18-22 every year. The rest are portal and Juco's. You don't go after the ones that aren't SEC worthy but you do go after the ones that you think will be.

    You don't sit around and let Southern Miss get good with these guys, who says they will want to leave if they are good.

  16. #76
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Anyone that thinks USM is going to be good EVER has lost their minds.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rock View Post
    What you seem to be missing is that there are 12-18 Mississippi guys that are SEC quality every year. You get all of them you can and hit TX, LA, AL, GA and Fla to get up to 18-22 every year. The rest are portal and Juco's. You don't go after the ones that aren't SEC worthy but you do go after the ones that you think will be.

    You don't sit around and let Southern Miss get good with these guys, who says they will want to leave if they are good.
    Aside from La and Texas, Georgia seems to be the other state this staff targets, I think Miller has some connections there.

    Having followed other programs, and lived in other regions of the country, I’m still amazed with the talent per capita in Mississippi and La.

  18. #78
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetEdDawg View Post
    I actually think it's smart to start working out of state. The big boys have proven they WILL come into MS and take a portion of the Top 10 guys in state and we have to adjust to that.

    The depth of talent in the state is not enough to support the rosters of MSU and OM while also hemorrhaging top tier talent to the big boys.

    We need to start doing the same thing if we want to compete. Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, Georgia, and Louisiana have depth of talent that we can capitalize on.

    3 of the Top 10 in the 2023 cycle in MS are committed out of state. Will those 3 stay that way? Maybe not. But MS currently has five 4 stars this cycle. Every surrounding state has at least triple that number.

    MS does have a lot of overlooked talent. We know that. But out of state is the way to go when it comes to being able to compete. We still need to find overlooked talent in MS. But we've got to push out of state more to fill our roster because there's a lot of talent to be had there.
    The thing is a lot of Mississippi players are raw. But with coaching in college they can become really good players. MSU has a long history of overlooking talented players from Mississippi- Rice, Payton, Favre- those are players that could have changed the complete perception of our program entirely. We don't find those players if we're chasing some three star from Florida and try to pretend that's the equivalent of a four star from Mississippi. We've been better lately- see Chris Jones. He and guys like Benardrick McKinney are probably at USM 20 years ago.

    Honestly, I would prefer to build a program with Mississippians and then any out of state four star player we can get. It seems like the out of state guys we get for the most part are just as raw and rarely pan out as much.

    After Leach I would like to see us get away from a "system coach" and hire someone more like a Shane Beamer that can recruit really well and clean out the state and has a scheme that is pretty basic and simple and flexible so that we don't have to tell Gardner Minchew to go to Wazzu because he doesn't fit our spread option scheme. Find the best players and fit the scheme around them.

  19. #79
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeyPirate View Post
    A plus for the air raid is it will always get looks from q bs and receivers that might otherwise not consider you. I think Leach still has a lot of connections with Texas HS coaches and will continue to pull recruits from that state. Louisiana is the other state that is talent rich and will always have a few players who don’t get offers from LSU but are sec level players.

    I think the portal will help us. It really won’t help the blue bloods but there will be starter quality players buried on the depth chart who will be looking to play in the air raid or an sec defense.
    That is a really good thing because QB and WR are historically the things we recruit the weakest at.

  20. #80
    Senior Member MetEdDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    The thing is a lot of Mississippi players are raw. But with coaching in college they can become really good players. MSU has a long history of overlooking talented players from Mississippi- Rice, Payton, Favre- those are players that could have changed the complete perception of our program entirely. We don't find those players if we're chasing some three star from Florida and try to pretend that's the equivalent of a four star from Mississippi. We've been better lately- see Chris Jones. He and guys like Benardrick McKinney are probably at USM 20 years ago.

    Honestly, I would prefer to build a program with Mississippians and then any out of state four star player we can get. It seems like the out of state guys we get for the most part are just as raw and rarely pan out as much.

    After Leach I would like to see us get away from a "system coach" and hire someone more like a Shane Beamer that can recruit really well and clean out the state and has a scheme that is pretty basic and simple and flexible so that we don't have to tell Gardner Minchew to go to Wazzu because he doesn't fit our spread option scheme. Find the best players and fit the scheme around them.
    I get your thought here and I want to recruit MS hard. We have to.

    But here's what I will say. Everyone uses the example of Favre, Payton, and Rice. Do we have have any examples over the last 20-25 years of overlooked guys that made an impact in the league from MS that's anywhere close to the impact they made? Certainly we've had some make a huge impact for us. McKinney is a big one.

    I struggle to find someone using modern day scouting and evaluation that just gets overlooked. Chris Jones is the closest comparison, but he was a 5 star by the time his recruitment ended.

    I want in state 4 star guys. They pan out a good percent of the time. But we aren't talking about not taking MS 4 stars for out of state 3 stars. I'm talking about spots 15-25 of a class. Are we really getting the bang for our time and efforts out of the MS guys that are the last 7-10 guys of a class? Go back and look over the last decade and you will see a lot of not great both at MSU and other schools.

    The Top 25 in Mississippi every year doesn't have 25 SEC caliber players. The Top 25 in AL, TX, TN, FL, GA, and LA does. We've got to dig into the depths of other states. There's a reason other decent schools aren't coming into MS and taking players outside the Top 15 in the state. Lowest ranked MS player taken by a good out of state SEC school in 2022 was ranked 13. Lowest ranked AL player taken by a good out of state SEC school in 2022 was at 42.

    We've got to go out of state to fill out more of class. Can't abandon MS completely, but the data has always shown the state of MS can't support the talent for 2 SEC teams to be competitive year in and year out.

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