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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I think Foxhall is a bigger problem than GoTro. Just look at this weekend.

    Florida pitchers pounded the zone at the knee.
    Florida pitchers had alot of run on their pitches
    Florida pitchers changed speeds beautifully

    State pitchers?

    Rare back....throw hard. And throw a 3-2 breaking ball for ball 4.
    Coach, when you say Foxhall is the bigger problem, is it pitch calling (assuming he is calling pitches) or is it pitcher development (e.g. teaching them additional pitches)?

    Or in contrast, is it talent deficiency or maybe just young talent that is slow to develop?

    Or something else entirely?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOdawg1 View Post
    On this board? I've seen people disappointed with Foxhall, Gautreau, and Lemonis. And they should be.

    Natty or not, this year was unacceptable. But I haven't seen anyone calling for them to be fired.

    I see a lot of "They need to get this fixed." being met with "CALM DOWN, BACK AWAY FROM THE LEDGE, THIS IS BASEBALL."
    For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by TALL DAWG View Post
    First head that needs to roll is our hitting coach.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton View Post
    For example:
    Didn't see that. But I think if you ask most fans, they don't agree with that.

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    And to set the tone for these discussions fellas, it is just plain enjoyable to try and drill down into some of our team issues. So do not interpret any contentiousness in the discussion. It is just more interesting trying to mine answers to our woes than watching our games.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton View Post
    Coach, when you say Foxhall is the bigger problem, is it pitch calling (assuming he is calling pitches) or is it pitcher development (e.g. teaching them additional pitches)?

    Or in contrast, is it talent deficiency or maybe just young talent that is slow to develop?

    Or something else entirely?
    He definitely calls pitches. He handles the walkie-talkie. I think his pitch-calling sux. Presto kept throwing 1st pitch breaking balls the other night to start and they finally sat on one and hammered it for a HR. We throw wayyyyy too many breaking balls on 3-2. We dont call the change near enough.

    We throw alot more 4 seamers than 2 seamers. I see other staffs with guys throwing 88-90 getting alot of run on the ball whereas our guys stuff stays so flat. I know power arms are all the rage now but when you throw 88-91 movement should be your primary concern.

    Between all that, pitching decisions, recruiting decisions- I just think there are better guys out there than what we have
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    He definitely calls pitches. He handles the walkie-talkie. I think his pitch-calling sux. Presto kept throwing 1st pitch breaking balls the other night to start and they finally sat on one and hammered it for a HR. We throw wayyyyy too many breaking balls on 3-2. We dont call the change near enough.

    We throw alot more 4 seamers than 2 seamers. I see other staffs with guys throwing 88-90 getting alot of run on the ball whereas our guys stuff stays so flat. I know power arms are all the rage now but when you throw 88-91 movement should be your primary concern.

    Between all that, pitching decisions, recruiting decisions- I just think there are better guys out there than what we have
    Bingo. You have captured the pitching side in a nutshell.

    Pitch selection at times this season has been infuriating so Foxhall certainly has to answer for that.

    Pitching with location and movement seems to have become passe. That is just plain sad. Think Greg Maddux for one.

    And, yes, we most assuredly need a talent upgrade and firmly believe we should be able to make this happen.
    Last edited by EdwardDrayton; 05-08-2022 at 08:31 PM.

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    Yes, we to get some talent, recruiting or portal. With the best stadium in the country, I don't see why we can't. And if we don't, we are in for big trouble next year. I agree with some others here, Lemonis needs to be recruiting for a better hitting coach as well. But I think that only a big drop in ticket sales will get management's attention. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KOdawg1 View Post
    Didn't see that. But I think if you ask most fans, they don't agree with that.
    I also think that is true KO. While our coaches certainly have shortfalls and misfires for which to answer, most of us still believe in them. Leadership is not easy, as those who have been in the positions will attest. But, one key attribute of leadership is to fully unveil the failures, accept responsibility, be accountable and take the necessary corrective measures.

    PS. Yes, for you grammar hounds, I split the infinitive on purpose. Just because I enjoy messing with you.
    Last edited by EdwardDrayton; 05-08-2022 at 08:47 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    He definitely calls pitches. He handles the walkie-talkie. I think his pitch-calling sux. Presto kept throwing 1st pitch breaking balls the other night to start and they finally sat on one and hammered it for a HR. We throw wayyyyy too many breaking balls on 3-2. We dont call the change near enough.

    We throw alot more 4 seamers than 2 seamers. I see other staffs with guys throwing 88-90 getting alot of run on the ball whereas our guys stuff stays so flat. I know power arms are all the rage now but when you throw 88-91 movement should be your primary concern.

    Between all that, pitching decisions, recruiting decisions- I just think there are better guys out there than what we have

    I like this post. It seems that we are obsessed with the 4 seam but you have to have the right guys for it. I can’t think of one pitcher that we have other than B. Smith that I see a good bit of arm side run from.

    That said, does a lot of it have to do with the gaps in recruiting?

  10. #70
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    I just read Lemonis postgame comments, and I'm not sure what game he was watching.

    Exact quote about the 9th inning meltdown: "Sometimes you lose when you play good all game"

    The only run on the board the first 8 innings was on a ball the FL infield lost in the sun.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Polk missed postseason 9 times and Cohen 3 times. Let's not pretend we haven't missed some postseason here and there. Hell, Lemonis hasn't even missed a CWS until this year. Two full seasons, two CWS. Had a damn good team in the Covid year too. Only coach with a Natty. Y'all getting crazy. We aren't the AL of college baseball or something.
    We'll bring in some people and see how it goes. We'll be young/inexperienced depth wise. We basically missed one year of recruiting due to the Canz crap putting behind. That year has to be corrected with good portal guys. Problem is, the baseball portal isn't the same as the football portal where AL can go get a good player from LSU. We won't go get a 5 star transfer that can just be our ace.
    Polk's heyday was a different era when 48 teams made the field. It's a lot harder now. Cohen had a massive rebuild. We need and should strive to be the Alabama of baseball. We've now won everything we can win and that's the next logical step.

    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    If you can't build momentum after a Natty, when can you? It's not crazy to think that a year after a Natty when we return 6 of 9 starters, we should make a Regional. Not crazy at all. The injuries hurt, for sure, but we sucked before them. All I'm saying is, if Lemonis can't hit the portal and recruiting trail and promise immediate playing time at THIS program where it is now...he may be Gene Chizik. I hope he's not, and I'm not saying he is...I'm just saying he better turn it around next year or many, including myself, will think he's unable to build a program and can only win with a roster of studs recruited by someone else.

    With transfer portal and NIL, this isn't the Polk days where you just keep a coach forever and hope he has some great years mixed in amongst the shitty ones. That's a good way to find yourself wasting a National Championship and at the bottom of the league. Baseball is all we've got, let's face it....we can't afford to let it crumble bc we're still high off of a Title. I want Lemonis to feel some pressure so he will produce.

    If he is worth his salt...he's pissed and will turn it around next year. That's what I'm hoping for, bc I actually like him.
    Look- Cohen and our fan base are not going to allow anyone to tank the program. Period. Being reasonable- if he can't get us back to our normal Super Regional level in a couple of years with new assistants then we probably make a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    Here's the problem. People have no clue obviously how baseball recruiting works. We did build momentum. Our 24/25 classes are insane.. that's off of the ship. We still have guys playing that committed to COHEN. Think about that. And for those that are comparing vitello, he walked into a dump which is tough to turn aroun. BUT, it allows you to punt the entire roster and start from scratch. Lem took us the series twice and missed a great opportunity for 3. Would y'all be happy if he didn't do that so he could get "his" guys?? Hell no. Just back away for a minute. We've Invented ways to lose. Lots is injuries and poor play to top. I'm not saying lem isn't open for criticism, but this is nuts.
    Good point. Most of our fans think that winning a National Championship means that we will immediately have an impact class when in reality it takes a couple of years to reap the full rewards of a National Title. The thing is people have a hard time being patient and seeing the big picture in regards to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranchdawg View Post
    ?We are not the Bama of baseball.? WHY NOT? With that type of attitude we will always have a very mediocre atheletic Dept. across the board. And don?t give me the old worn out we are poor, we are in Starkville, we are in a rural state. Blab blab, all excuses! Lemonis, Foxhall and Gotro go out there and do your job, a job you are paid a lot of money to do and win games, period! Not saying fire them but put some fire up their @#&.

    Are we fans not supposed to be angry by what we are witnessing on the field. You damn right we are supposed to be angry and angry as hell. And want it understood in baseball we don?t play second fiddle to anyone in this country and that has been a FACT for a long time.
    Yep!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I think Foxhall is a bigger problem than GoTro. Just look at this weekend.

    Florida pitchers pounded the zone at the knee.
    Florida pitchers had alot of run on their pitches
    Florida pitchers changed speeds beautifully

    State pitchers?

    Rare back....throw hard. And throw a 3-2 breaking ball for ball 4.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Well, coaching comes into play when you arent pushing 1st rounders out there to play. Our pitching doesnt exactly scream "well coached"

    We couldnt fix Bacon
    Macloud got worse as the season went on
    We couldnt fix Walling
    Tepper has been sporadic
    Fristoe has an ERA over 6
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    He definitely calls pitches. He handles the walkie-talkie. I think his pitch-calling sux. Presto kept throwing 1st pitch breaking balls the other night to start and they finally sat on one and hammered it for a HR. We throw wayyyyy too many breaking balls on 3-2. We dont call the change near enough.

    We throw alot more 4 seamers than 2 seamers. I see other staffs with guys throwing 88-90 getting alot of run on the ball whereas our guys stuff stays so flat. I know power arms are all the rage now but when you throw 88-91 movement should be your primary concern.

    Between all that, pitching decisions, recruiting decisions- I just think there are better guys out there than what we have
    I agree 100% with all of this. And yet most of our fans seem to want Gautreau to be fired? I don't get it. Our team ERA is near 6. Meanwhile yes the offense struggles with RISP but they also are 14 away from a school record in home runs and the offense is statistically similar to last year.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlSwearengen View Post
    I like this post. It seems that we are obsessed with the 4 seam but you have to have the right guys for it. I can’t think of one pitcher that we have other than B. Smith that I see a good bit of arm side run from.

    That said, does a lot of it have to do with the gaps in recruiting?
    Maybe a little bit. But it has more to do with injuries and poor coaching. Foxhall just isn't very flexible. He tries to coach every game the same way regardless. That works fine if you have the Landon Sims ace in the hole card you can play. But that's rare. Like I said- very few mound visits and he just lets guys try to figure it out. I don't get it. Yes, we've had injuries but he hasn't really done us any favors this year. Leaves starters in too long. Takes out guys when they're in a groove. And it seems like he tries to force people into roles like when he tried to make Fristoe the closer. And then like Coach said- he patterns our pitches too much. Even educated fans shouldn't be picking up on that. It's embarrassing for him.

    We need to get either Frank Johnson from Tennessee who I think would be a great addition to the staff because he is fiery instead of the three nice choir boys we have coaching. Could help the team. I'd take Christian Ostrander from USM as well. You have to be able to recruit and develop to succeed like he has at Delta State, Arkansas State, and USM. Plus he has coached at Alabama so he isn't completely foreign to the SEC. I'd look at Dallas Baptist too. That place is a pitching factory.

  12. #72
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    I may be totally naive but I've not been the biggest Foxhall fan either. Agree with a lot of points we've made and the thing to me is that a lot of our staff is the same guy. Cohen seemed to always have a variety of guys on staff. Sider armers, sinker guys, etc. Sure the K's are nice but now when we aren't striking guys out they seem to either walk or hit the ball pretty hard somewhere. We don't have a lot of guys that induce consistent weak contact.

    No idea if that's intentional by the coaching staff or not, but the nature of the college beast is that it's hard to consistently have a staff of elite arms. We seem to value velo way more than guys that show they know how to pitch and it bit us this year.

    Whatever reason, even without injuries this wasn't a great staff as a lot of guys have not developed into reliable upper end arms.

    We've done the same thing on the hitting side in regards to our focus on power over contact and batting eye.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irondawg View Post
    I may be totally naive but I've not been the biggest Foxhall fan either. Agree with a lot of points we've made and the thing to me is that a lot of our staff is the same guy. Cohen seemed to always have a variety of guys on staff. Sider armers, sinker guys, etc. Sure the K's are nice but now when we aren't striking guys out they seem to either walk or hit the ball pretty hard somewhere. We don't have a lot of guys that induce consistent weak contact.

    No idea if that's intentional by the coaching staff or not, but the nature of the college beast is that it's hard to consistently have a staff of elite arms. We seem to value velo way more than guys that show they know how to pitch and it bit us this year.

    Whatever reason, even without injuries this wasn't a great staff as a lot of guys have not developed into reliable upper end arms.

    We've done the same thing on the hitting side in regards to our focus on power over contact and batting eye.
    Cohen built our team much better than what we have now. Once he got it finally established. We went from rebuild to full on dirtbag team (2011) to small ball (2012-2013) to finally transitioning into a balanced team that had a good blend of speed, power, great arms, and good defense. Essentially led to our best run in baseball- which is saying something given our history.

    You are absolutely correct that we have too many of the same guy. Some variety would be nice.

    Valuing velocity is fine. However, the stereotype is guys that throw hard typically have worse control. So those pitchers are going to need more coaching to reach their ceiling. And that's the issue that we're having. Those are the pitchers that you can't just throw out there and expect them to just figure it out. Which is what Foxhall seems to do. The result is usually a disaster with a lot of walks and then a bomb which kills their confidence. They're a bunch of Ricky Vaughn's before the glasses.

    The only thing I disagree on is about it not being a great staff before injuries. Both Sims and Simmons were lights out for us before they went down. And Simmons is a multi inning guy. Having Sims in the rotation means that Brandon Smith is in the bullpen and possibly our midweek guy like Harding last year. So instead of having to pitch an inconsistent Jackson Fristoe as much those innings would be going to Simmons. I doubt we would see Talley or Tullar much either. Not to mention Auger and the innings he would eat. Add in Hunt and Pico and that's a pretty decent to good pitching staff.

  14. #74
    Senior Member MoreCowbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlSwearengen View Post
    So, we are going to hire another new coach, making it our fifth in, what, seven years? Then we lose 3/4 of our commits and ya’ll are wondering why we suck when we can’t beat the rest of the league with left over recruits that we poached from usm, uab, and Memphis in an effort to fill out a roster.

    Look at florida. O’Sullivan is supposed to be a whiz bang coach, recruits lights out every year and they have badly underperformed the last few years. It’s baseball and it is the SEC.

    My biggest concern with our coaching staff right now is, did they genuinely think this team was going to be in the top half of the league, even without the injuries? Without injuries, I think we fight to get to 15-15 but do and make the tournament. We never should have been in the discussion for repeating anything.

    Ya’ll chill out. Augie Garrido wasn’t winning with this situation.
    The problem with this analogy is FL does not gaf abt baseball. We do. Tighten it tf up Lemonis

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    If you had 2 or 3 line drive hitting high OBP hitters and 2 rubber armed sinker balling pitchers on this team its a different season.

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    Senior Member KOdawg1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    If you had 2 or 3 line drive hitting high OBP hitters and 2 rubber armed sinker balling pitchers on this team its a different season.
    This is correct. Solo home runs are great and all, but they don't win you games.

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    Senior Member FISHDAWG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    One hit makes him the most clutch ever? He can't hit. The same people that were begging for him to start over lane are crickets now.
    he's had more than one clutch hit this year ... I won't even bring up the clutch hit of the series last year. I just think it's difficult for either one to produce consistently when being platooned ... Forsythe finally got extended playing time and now his numbers came up - I wouldn't doubt the same might have happened for Leggett.
    OXFORD, Miss. (WTVA) - Ole Miss campus police ask students to behave at future baseball games following a recent incident.
    The university said students were reportedly throwing rocks at Georgia baseball players during last weekend's series.

  18. #78
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Polk's heyday was a different era when 48 teams made the field. It's a lot harder now. Cohen had a massive rebuild. We need and should strive to be the Alabama of baseball. We've now won everything we can win and that's the next logical step.
    .
    This is maybe the worst thing any of our fan base should believe. We win 1 Natty and we should become a Bama like dynasty? Look, I get that we have great fan support and have a great tradition, and we invest in baseball - but that just ain't going to happen. There is no Alabama of college baseball. College baseball isn't built that way - at least not since the 1980s when the SEC finally woke up and started really competing for CWS spots. Outside of USC's 12 titles (all but 1 of which was pre-1980), no one has more than 6 titles. And if you break that down further to post 1980, only LSU (with all 6 of theirs) has more than 3 titles. Baseball is not a sport of single dominance when it comes titles, and since the Super Regional Era began, it has gotten increasingly difficult to even make the CWS multiple years in a row.

    Now - if you want to quantify it better as we should "expect to be a playoff team every year", I think that is legit. If you want to say we should have multiple CWS appearances every decade, I think you'd have a strong argument.
    Now NIL and all the pay for play schemes that are popping up may change all of that - assuming it is allowed to continue in it's current form. But in a sport where Coastal Carolina has 1 CWS appearance, with a win, and FSU has 23 CWS appearances without ever winning a title - expecting anyone to have Bama-like dominance is just ridiculous.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  19. #79
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    We have great fan support and a great park. We have one Natty...1. I'm fine with striving to be great, but there's no way to even be "The Alabama of Baseball" these days. Baseball is completely different than football. Even Vandy is taking some hits now. And with money becoming an even greater factor with NIL, going to be tough.

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    Crazy and Lazy Math - business math, not engineering or stochastic analysis. I am going to explore this number further as SEC only, Friday Only, etc.

    If you give last years team the current Team ERA, basically 2 runs more to the opponents. The 2021 national champs lose 5 or 6 more SEC games. They finish 15-15 in the SEC. They probably don't survive Notre Dame and even make Omaha. That's with Rowdey and the Goat hitting.

    The pitching depth is the obvious and clear problem. 2021 with Landon Sims closing the toughest games, the team gave up 51 runs in 68 games in the 8th and 9th inning. This year, 80 runs in the last two innings in just 48 games.

    You can't portal-In a Bednar, BJ Wallace or Sims, but if MSU can portal in Colby White, Spencer Price, Zach Neff and JP France the boys can win 16 to 17 games in the SEC next year. With Daniel Brown (Daniel not Paul) added to mix, you have a Super Regional team easy. These were all great players, but certainly gettable players from JC and D1 transfers. You will need to recruit 6 players cause someone will have Canadian Syndrome. Yes, just asking for a minor miracle here.

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