Joe judge fired

[Cooterpoot]

A lot of people thought the same about Coach O, Sam Pittman, and Shane Beamer.

In college you can either succeed with a Dan Mullen/Mike Leach type. Or you can get a Pittman/Beamer type and succeed IF you hire elite coordinators and recruiters.

Judge would have fallen into the Coach O/Sam Pittman type.

In the NFL success is mostly determined by the players on the roster. Even the greats of all time- Bellichick, Walsh, Lombardi and etc. struggled when they didn't have talent on the roster.

Now, that said I do think Judge was a little young for our job much less a NFL head coaching job. I just don't think he was ready based on his resume. Especially when compared to a Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay who both grew up in NFL coaching families and were OC's. Ultimately this experience will help Judge going forward. Someone in the NFL will hire him as an assistant and he will hopefully work his way up like he should have and was on his way to doing before he took the Giants job.

Orgeron got a generationally good QB transfer in and had two incredible coaches running his offense and defense that was left over from the previous coach for the most part. Look how fast he got fired. He was a damn joke that fell into an incredible situation. He didn't make LSU, it made him. What the hell has Pittman and Beamer done? Beamer didn't beat a team with a winning record.

[Todd4State]

Orgeron got a generationally good QB transfer in and had two incredible coaches running his offense and defense that was left over from the previous coach for the most part. Look how fast he got fired. He was a damn joke that fell into an incredible situation. He didn't make LSU, it made him. What the hell has Pittman and Beamer done? Beamer didn't beat a team with a winning record.

Name one coach that wins with bad players? Why is that a criticism of a coach? He certainly could have Joe Mo'd it there and he didn't. He was fired because of off the field issues and would still be their coach had they not had major things going on off the field that could have made them the SEC version of Penn State. Let's not forget that Coach O was successful as an interim at USC and had a 9 and 10 win season before 2019 and also led LSU to a 6 wins after he was named interim coach and got them to the Citrus Bowl.

Pittman had a really good season this year and basically beat all of their rivals. He has done a good job considering where Arkansas was when he took over. I'm pretty sure 99% of our fans would take a season the equivalent of what they had this year with you apparently being in the 1%

Beamer took over a program that won 2 games last year and 4 the year before and had a winning season without a QB. That's in year one and odds are good that he will be at least competitive with the other teams in the SEC East based on what he is doing.

Who would you hire realistically at MSU that could produce better results than that since those three are such bad coaches?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

A lot of people thought the same about Coach O, Sam Pittman, and Shane Beamer.

In college you can either succeed with a Dan Mullen/Mike Leach type. Or you can get a Pittman/Beamer type and succeed IF you hire elite coordinators and recruiters.

Judge would have fallen into the Coach O/Sam Pittman type.

In the NFL success is mostly determined by the players on the roster. Even the greats of all time- Bellichick, Walsh, Lombardi and etc. struggled when they didn't have talent on the roster.

Now, that said I do think Judge was a little young for our job much less a NFL head coaching job. I just don't think he was ready based on his resume. Especially when compared to a Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay who both grew up in NFL coaching families and were OC's. Ultimately this experience will help Judge going forward. Someone in the NFL will hire him as an assistant and he will hopefully work his way up like he should have and was on his way to doing before he took the Giants job.

You named 3 coaches who were basically lifetime college coaches who had reputations of very good to elite recruiters. So at worst you knew they would accumulate talent even if they couldn't coach. Judge doesn't have that. It would've been a terrible hire.

[Todd4State]

You named 3 coaches who were basically lifetime college coaches who had reputations of very good to elite recruiters. So at worst you knew they would accumulate talent even if they couldn't coach. Judge doesn't have that. It would've been a terrible hire.

And all three had success.

Would have completely depended on who he hired. Which is a complete unknown. What we do know is MSU has shown that we can hire elite coordinators even going back to the Jackie Sherrill days and I don't think Cohen would mind overpaying on coordinators especially if he can save money on the head coach. Then it's a matter of hiring elite recruiters. And we absolutely have the ability to do that.

So, at the end of the day it's all about how we decide to go about it. Try to outscheme everyone with a Mullen, Moorhead, or Leach and maybe sacrifice some recruiting acumen or get someone like a Pittman with really good recruiters. Either way works for me.

The good thing is IF we ever do hire Judge he will have head coaching experience. Plus whatever else happens between now and then.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

And all three had success.

Would have completely depended on who he hired. Which is a complete unknown. What we do know is MSU has shown that we can hire elite coordinators even going back to the Jackie Sherrill days and I don't think Cohen would mind overpaying on coordinators especially if he can save money on the head coach. Then it's a matter of hiring elite recruiters. And we absolutely have the ability to do that.

So, at the end of the day it's all about how we decide to go about it. Try to outscheme everyone with a Mullen, Moorhead, or Leach and maybe sacrifice some recruiting acumen or get someone like a Pittman with really good recruiters. Either way works for me.

The good thing is IF we ever do hire Judge he will have head coaching experience. Plus whatever else happens between now and then.

If Joe Judge graduated from Penn St instead of MSU he doesn't sniff an interview or the respect by MSU fans for being a terrible HC in the NFL.

[Cooterpoot]

Judge got completely taken apart by the NFL media insiders for being arrogant, out of control, and just plain terrible coaching. He attempted to throw everyone under the bus he could. His players turned on him. He's no HC at any level and he's going to have a tough time getting another shot.

[HoopsDawg]

If Joe Judge graduated from Penn St instead of MSU he doesn't sniff an interview or the respect by MSU fans for being a terrible HC in the NFL.

Judge seems like a moron, but I can't get mad at Cohen for thinking outside the box. Let's hire a Deion Sanders or someone undiscovered. All we are gambling with is 7-5.

[TNDawg35]

Name one coach that wins with bad players? Why is that a criticism of a coach? He certainly could have Joe Mo'd it there and he didn't. He was fired because of off the field issues and would still be their coach had they not had major things going on off the field that could have made them the SEC version of Penn State. Let's not forget that Coach O was successful as an interim at USC and had a 9 and 10 win season before 2019 and also led LSU to a 6 wins after he was named interim coach and got them to the Citrus Bowl.

Pittman had a really good season this year and basically beat all of their rivals. He has done a good job considering where Arkansas was when he took over. I'm pretty sure 99% of our fans would take a season the equivalent of what they had this year with you apparently being in the 1%

Beamer took over a program that won 2 games last year and 4 the year before and had a winning season without a QB. That's in year one and odds are good that he will be at least competitive with the other teams in the SEC East based on what he is doing.

Who would you hire realistically at MSU that could produce better results than that since those three are such bad coaches?

While I agree whole heartedly with what you said about O, Pittman is tied to Briles and Odom. I honestly think more Briles than Odom. He made a homerun hire in him and better hope he keeps him. If he looses him, he better make a hell of a hire again or they will go down hill quick like O did... When you have a CEO coach, he lives or dies by his coordinators. Coach O died with his this year (and the off field stuff), while Pittman has kept his so far and looks good. I also believe he generally wants to be there at Arkansas and that makes all the difference.

[TNDawg35]

Judge seems like a moron, but I can't get mad at Cohen for thinking outside the box. Let's hire a Deion Sanders or someone undiscovered. All we are gambling with is 7-5.

This right here. What do we have to loose. Play the media game. Everyone else does.

[bulldawg28]

If Joe Judge graduated from Penn St instead of MSU he doesn't sniff an interview or the respect by MSU fans for being a terrible HC in the NFL.

This all day. The maroon glasses are darker than normal.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Judge seems like a moron, but I can't get mad at Cohen for thinking outside the box. Let's hire a Deion Sanders or someone undiscovered. All we are gambling with is 7-5.

In a normal circumstance maybe but we were just coming off the failed moorhead experiment. We needed a hire that wasn't a total crapshoot. If you're making this hire after Mullen it makes a little more sense.

[msstate7]

Judge seems like a moron, but I can't get mad at Cohen for thinking outside the box. Let's hire a Deion Sanders or someone undiscovered. All we are gambling with is 7-5.

Man, we'd get some players with prime time. Still not sure he's a good coach get though

[BrunswickDawg]

In a normal circumstance maybe but we were just coming off the failed moorhead experiment. We needed a hire that wasn't a total crapshoot. If you're making this hire after Mullen it makes a little more sense.

If Judge had been a college coach his whole career he might have been worth a gamble for us. But I think there are just too many aspects of the game that are different to take a risk on an inexperienced pro coach at a school like MSU.
Beamer to me would have been a much safer bet because of this. Not that it really matters since we ended up with Leach and dodged a bullet with Judge.

[Coach34]

A few things in this thread:

Judge doesnt need to be a HC at State. ST coordinator? Sure
Had Saban not gotten screwed over by the team Dr's and had Drew Brees as his QB- Saban's NFL career would have lasted longer.
Bill O'Brien was decent in the NFL and Carroll has a damn SB.
Beamer has SC off to a decent start. Let's see where he goes. He is the son of a very successful coach so that carries some weight
Pittman is the perfect HC. He is very personable and recruits hard. Let's his coaches coach. He shakes babies and kisses hands- all the PR stuff needed as a HC. He brings excitement. I think he does well at UPig.
Nobody has won in Washington since Snyder took over the franchise, but Spurrier just isnt an NFL guy. Just like Leach wouldnt be.

We'll see what happens with Leach. From Cohen's perspective- he's a veteran coach that has won. While a gamble in the SEC- you can see why he went that route. It's a calculated gamble. We got better in Year 2. Thats what you are looking for. Year 3 will be even more revealing with a veteran offense and some returning talent on D. We'll be rated middle of the pack to begin next season- so a 7-8 win expectation.

[Dak Holliday]

Judge seems like a moron, but I can't get mad at Cohen for thinking outside the box. Let's hire a Deion Sanders or someone undiscovered. All we are gambling with is 7-5.

Deion is a bigger brand than almost any college football team. His recruiting would be better here than we?ve ever seen. As long as he hired good coordinators and stayed out of the way, he?d be a phenomenal hire.

[TheLostDawg]

Deion is a bigger brand than almost any college football team. His recruiting would be better here than we?ve ever seen. As long as he hired good coordinators and stayed out of the way, he?d be a phenomenal hire.

No way he would stay and we'd be going through the same thing with Mullen but at a time everyone can transfer out and I bet he'd pull every big time recruit with him when he left

[Tbonewannabe]

A few things in this thread:

Judge doesnt need to be a HC at State. ST coordinator? Sure
Had Saban not gotten screwed over by the team Dr's and had Drew Brees as his QB- Saban's NFL career would have lasted longer.
Bill O'Brien was decent in the NFL and Carroll has a damn SB.
Beamer has SC off to a decent start. Let's see where he goes. He is the son of a very successful coach so that carries some weight
Pittman is the perfect HC. He is very personable and recruits hard. Let's his coaches coach. He shakes babies and kisses hands- all the PR stuff needed as a HC. He brings excitement. I think he does well at UPig.
Nobody has won in Washington since Snyder took over the franchise, but Spurrier just isnt an NFL guy. Just like Leach wouldnt be.

We'll see what happens with Leach. From Cohen's perspective- he's a veteran coach that has won. While a gamble in the SEC- you can see why he went that route. It's a calculated gamble. We got better in Year 2. Thats what you are looking for. Year 3 will be even more revealing with a veteran offense and some returning talent on D. We'll be rated middle of the pack to begin next season- so a 7-8 win expectation.

SO what is your expectation for next year with Leach? Do you think Leach will work out or are we still just kicking the can down the road? I am still not 100% sold (Moorhead made me gun shy) but I am happy with the direction we are going. I was also fairly happy with recruiting this year also.

[Tbonewannabe]

No way he would stay and we'd be going through the same thing with Mullen but at a time everyone can transfer out and I bet he'd pull every big time recruit with him when he left

This is one of the biggest positives with Leach for me. I think we could be his last stop. I don't see him looking to go anywhere else barring something crazy.

[Coach34]

SO what is your expectation for next year with Leach? Do you think Leach will work out or are we still just kicking the can down the road? I am still not 100% sold (Moorhead made me gun shy) but I am happy with the direction we are going. I was also fairly happy with recruiting this year also.

Expect us to meet or exceed expectations- should be an 8 win team. We not beating Bama or Jawja but should compete well with the other 10.

A&M will be good but its home
LSU is transitioning but still has decent talent
Mississippi has been gutted
UPig will be pretty good but its home
Auburn will be decent but its home
Kentucky will be tough on the road but you cant just put an auto-L there yet

So our SEC road games are against winnable opponents and our tougher opponents are at home. Works well for us in 2022 to make some noise

[RiverCityDawg]

Expect us to meet or exceed expectations- should be an 8 win team. We not beating Bama or Jawja but should compete well with the other 10.

A&M will be good but its home
LSU is transitioning but still has decent talent
Mississippi has been gutted
UPig will be pretty good but its home
Auburn will be decent but its home
Kentucky will be tough on the road but you cant just put an auto-L there yet

So our SEC road games are against winnable opponents and our tougher opponents are at home. Works well for us in 2022 to make some noise

Agree. 8 regular season wins including the egg should be the minimum expectation. I'm not saying we should fire him for less, but I don't see how less could be considered a successful season all things considered.