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Thread: Every win we've ever had over a team that finished ranked

  1. #21
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltadawg63 View Post
    In general, Mullen has been held on a high pedestal and I have held him there too. He did reach a modern day pinnacle in October, 2014. However, a lot of this high perception of Mullen is because he followed coaches who had lost miserably (Sherrill in the end and Croom throughout) and the fan base was so low in expectation as well (I was). Mullen raised the floor of the fan base a lot! So those who followed him have had shorter leashes for sure. Moorhead would still be here if not for lack of team/locker room management. So let's not be so hard on Leach! (as I have to remind myself of this too!)
    This is true. Rep Given.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    I'm holding that Memphis loss on the officials than MSU. No one knew we were going to be COVID ravaged going into the Liberty Bowl either.
    Good point. I am not one to blame refs for a loss but that was atrocious. It might go down as the worst officiated game I have ever witnessed State play. I was really mad at Leach for not kicking that field goal when we got the INT to start the 3rd quarter, but now that I know how bad our kicking situation was I don?t really fault him for that now

  3. #23
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    Actually I can see the argument of counting a win over a team that would have been ranked if we had beaten them, but how can we possibly know? Texas A&M this year is surely an example, but what about A&M in 2014 and 2016? Probably?

    I am definitely sticking to my guns about not giving credit for a team that was ranked at the time but turned out to be bad. Should Sam Pittman get credit for beating us on 2020, a year we finished 4-7, but the other 6 coaches who beat us that year not get credit?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Maroonthirteen's Avatar
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    Mullen is the best coach in MSU football history. Mullen's won/loss record speaks for itself regardless where the opponent finished the season. Also, MSU now has more players in the NFL ever because of Mullen and company. I don't understand the need to belittle what Mullen did here.

    It seems people want to belittle Mullen to excuse Leach's meager results so far. However, frame up the current situation how ever you want. Fact remains Mullen was extremely good at MSU. It remains to be seen what comes of the Leach era.

  5. #25
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen View Post
    Mullen is the best coach in MSU football history. Mullen's won/loss record speaks for itself regardless where the opponent finished the season. Also, MSU now has more players in the NFL ever because of Mullen and company. I don't understand the need to belittle what Mullen did here.

    It seems people want to belittle Mullen to excuse Leach's meager results so far. However, frame up the current situation how ever you want. Fact remains Mullen was extremely good at MSU. It remains to be seen what comes of the Leach era.
    I haven't seen anyone belittling Mullen. Calling out facts and trends is not belittling - its called analysis. As you stated, by wins and loses, Mullen is arguably our best coach ever. However, it is also a fact that Mullen was not as good as Jackie against teams that finished the season ranked. Mullen's player development is born out by the number of guys in the league. Mullen's lack luster recruiting style has been shown to have inhibited us and UF - and there are many factual examples.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Doing it by where they finished is to purposely take a shot at someone. Wonder who? Nevermind Dan beat what? 3 top 10 teams in back to back weeks in '14 I think??

  7. #27
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Doing it by where they finished is to purposely take a shot at someone. Wonder who? Nevermind Dan beat what? 3 top 10 teams in back to back weeks in '14 I think??
    People on this board were discounting the '14 season within the year because Auburn, A&M and LSU all ended up "having down seasons". People have posted the same about JoMo's win against #8 Auburn in 2018 before the season was even over.
    Personally, I've always gone by the "ranked at time of game" approach - mainly because it helps perceptions about the program. Which sounds better for us? "Jackie's first season in '91 was highlighted by a nationally televised win over #13 Texas", or "Jackie's first season was highlighted by a close, early season battle against a Texas team that wound up 5-6"?

    I'm not going to knock the OP for presenting facts - how you use it to make an analysis is up to the reader.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Doing it by where they finished is to purposely take a shot at someone. Wonder who? Nevermind Dan beat what? 3 top 10 teams in back to back weeks in '14 I think??
    Are you really suggesting that I of all people am trying to belittle Dan Mullen??

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    People on this board were discounting the '14 season within the year because Auburn, A&M and LSU all ended up "having down seasons". People have posted the same about JoMo's win against #8 Auburn in 2018 before the season was even over.
    Personally, I've always gone by the "ranked at time of game" approach - mainly because it helps perceptions about the program. Which sounds better for us? "Jackie's first season in '91 was highlighted by a nationally televised win over #13 Texas", or "Jackie's first season was highlighted by a close, early season battle against a Texas team that wound up 5-6"?

    I'm not going to knock the OP for presenting facts - how you use it to make an analysis is up to the reader.
    It works both ways. What about 2007 Auburn? Why shouldn't Croom get credit, simply because the voters didn't realize Auburn was top 25 in that particular week? We knew by the end of the year that Auburn was a top 25 team.

    Ultimately, I want to credit wins over teams that really were good, not based on how they seemed the time. Also, its important that everybody who beat a particular team that year all get credit or none, rather than some get it and some don't based on scheduling quirks. See the example about us last year being ranked for 1 week.

  10. #30
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    It works both ways. What about 2007 Auburn? Why shouldn't Croom get credit, simply because the voters didn't realize Auburn was top 25 in that particular week? We knew by the end of the year that Auburn was a top 25 team.

    Ultimately, I want to credit wins over teams that really were good, not based on how they seemed the time. Also, its important that everybody who beat a particular team that year all get credit or none, rather than some get it and some don't based on scheduling quirks. See the example about us last year being ranked for 1 week.
    It's one of those times where probably any other fanbase would say "Count both" and trumpet winning 2007 Auburn and 2014 Auburn both as Top 25 wins. But, oh no, not us. LOL
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    It's one of those times where probably any other fanbase would say "Count both" and trumpet winning 2007 Auburn and 2014 Auburn both as Top 25 wins. But, oh no, not us. LOL
    Does/should Arkansas count their win over us in 2020 as a ranked win?

    What about Auburn in 2010?

  12. #32
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    Does/should Arkansas count their win over us in 2020 as a ranked win?

    What about Auburn in 2010?
    I don't really care. My point is there is a whole lot of time spent arguing negative points in the MSU fanbase when a school like Ole Miss would would claim both and try to make some other ranking relevant to add to it, then somehow get ESPN to recognize that stat only when talking about Ole Miss, then have Greg McIlroy state it every 4 minutes during their games for the next 2 seasons.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  13. #33
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I don't really care. My point is there is a whole lot of time spent arguing negative points in the MSU fanbase when a school like Ole Miss would would claim both and try to make some other ranking relevant to add to it, then somehow get ESPN to recognize that stat only when talking about Ole Miss, then have Greg McIlroy state it every 4 minutes during their games for the next 2 seasons.
    Brunswick you get it. It seems like when we beat someone good or do something good a lot of our fanbase downplays it like "well they weren't very good this year" or "MSU just got lucky", when conversely om trumpets every little thing they do(no matter how irrelevant)as spectacular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I don't really care. My point is there is a whole lot of time spent arguing negative points in the MSU fanbase when a school like Ole Miss would would claim both and try to make some other ranking relevant to add to it, then somehow get ESPN to recognize that stat only when talking about Ole Miss, then have Greg McIlroy state it every 4 minutes during their games for the next 2 seasons.
    Bolchevism Prevents Rep.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    I'm holding that Memphis loss on the officials than MSU. No one knew we were going to be COVID ravaged going into the Liberty Bowl either.
    We were losing when the refs messed up.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Turfdawg67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    It works both ways. What about 2007 Auburn? Why shouldn't Croom get credit, simply because the voters didn't realize Auburn was top 25 in that particular week? We knew by the end of the year that Auburn was a top 25 team.

    Ultimately, I want to credit wins over teams that really were good, not based on how they seemed the time. Also, its important that everybody who beat a particular team that year all get credit or none, rather than some get it and some don't based on scheduling quirks. See the example about us last year being ranked for 1 week.
    How about this, count them if they finish above .500 and don't if they finish under. A 7-5 LSU team probably would have ended up ranked, at 8-4, but thanks to our loss, they didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Brunswick you get it. It seems like when we beat someone good or do something good a lot of our fanbase downplays it like "well they weren't very good this year" or "MSU just got lucky", when conversely om trumpets every little thing they do(no matter how irrelevant)as spectacular.
    True dat.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turfdawg67 View Post
    How about this, count them if they finish above .500 and don't if they finish under. A 7-5 LSU team probably would have ended up ranked, at 8-4, but thanks to our loss, they didn't.



    True dat.
    I like was Q has done here, but wins over .500 or better teams would be interesting. As would wins over teams ranked at the time. I think all three perspectives have value, just different approaches.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    This is based on the AP Poll, which goes back to 1936. So it won't include a game like the 1935 win over Army, which would likely be on it if the poll existed then. Also, it's based on the final AP Poll, rather than where a team was ranked at the time we played them, since we shouldn't get credit for a win over a team that turned out bad, and we should get credit for a team that turned out to be good, even if the voters didn't realize it at the time.

    I'm also going to ignore forfeited/vacated games in either direction and rely solely on the results on the field. Tyler and Moorhead get credit for wins that we no longer claim; Sherril doesn't get a win that Alabama forfeited to us.

    1941, #20 Alabama, Allyn McKeen
    1941, #17 Ole Miss, Allyn McKeen
    1942, #16 Auburn, Allyn McKeen
    1945, #15 LSU, Allyn McKeen
    1950, #4 Tennesssee, Arthur Morton
    1952, #20 Kentucky, Murray Warmath
    1957, #17 Florida, Wade Walker
    1958, #18 Florida, Wade Walker
    1963, #5 Auburn, Paul Davis
    1970, #20 Ole Miss, Charles Shira
    1976, #18 Kentucky, Bob Tyler
    1977, #10 Washington, Bob Tyler
    1980, #18 Miami (FL), Emory Bellard
    1980, #6 Alabama, Emory Bellard
    1982, #11 LSU, Emory Bellard
    1984, #15 LSU, Emory Bellard
    1992, #10 Florida, Jackie Sherrill
    1994, #22 Tennesssee, Jackie Sherrill
    1996, #11 Alabama, Jackie Sherrill
    1997, #11 Auburn, Jackie Sherrill
    1998, #16 Arkansas, Jackie Sherrill
    1999, #22 Ole Miss, Jackie Sherrill
    2000, #10 Florida, Jackie Sherrill
    2000, #18 Auburn, Jackie Sherrill
    2007, #15 Auburn, Sylvester Croom
    2009, #20 Ole Miss, Dan Mullen
    2014, #22 Auburn, Dan Mullen
    2017, #18 LSU, Dan Mullen
    2018, #16 Texas A&M, Joe Moorhead
    2021, #20 NC State, Mike Leach
    2021, #18 Kentucky, Mike Leach

    We only have 4 seasons where we got more than one in a season:
    2 - 1941, 1980, 2000, 2021

    And by coach, sorted by percentage of games coached that were wins over ranked teams:
    2/24 (8.3%) - Mike Leach
    1/19 (5.3%) - Murray Warmath
    8/152 (5.3%) - Jackie Sherrill
    4/79 (5.1%) - Emory Bellard
    4/87 (4.6%) - Allyn McKeen
    1/26 (3.8%) - Joe Moorhead
    1/27 (3.7%) - Arthur Morton
    2/56 (3.6%) - Wade Walker
    2/67 (3.0%) - Bob Tyler
    3/115 (2.6%) - Dan Mullen
    1/50 (2.0%) - Paul Davis
    1/59 (1.7%) - Sylvester Croom
    1/63 (1.6%) - Charles Shira
    Great reminder that Mullen was not a great coach

  19. #39
    LiL MissBitch alot sleepy dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaSwamp View Post
    Great reminder that Mullen was not a great coach
    If this is your justification for that, then I assume you have no issues saying that Mike Leach is by far the best coach in MSU history?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy dawg View Post
    If this is your justification for that, then I assume you have no issues saying that Mike Leach is by far the best coach in MSU history?
    LOL you can gtfoh with that. Obviously not going to say that after two years. Trying to twist stuff.

    If he sticks around and has 100+ games like this like Mullen and Sherrill, we'll talk again then

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