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  1. #21
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    Any time. Just don't shoot the messenger. Which I'm waiting for... but oh well...
    Nah, you're only sharing what you heard. That's all I can ask. It's still surprising to me, but it is what it is. Thanks again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Which is mind-boggling considering Rogers gets 4 seconds to throw on the reg- and that is unheard of in today's football. But because of our offensive philosophy and throwing it 54 times per game- we see the Prevent play after play after play
    Do you see open receivers down field like most on here seem to see?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdawg View Post
    Do you see open receivers down field like most on here seem to see?
    I've been watching on TV so no- I'm not seeing it live and seeing what is going on downfield. I do know we absolutely never have a WR catching a ball wide ass open like you see in every other game on TV every Saturday. Why is that you think? Why are our WR's and RB getting blown up constantly?

    But what watching it on TV does allow me to see is the defense rush 3 play after play- and I can see the underneath players drop on the snap. LB's are taught to take a step forward at the snap as a rule. But against us? They drop on the snap. I dont raise hell on here about Rogers because I know how hard it is for him to throw against 8 play after play. I would never put that on my QB. You are asking the impossible.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    I'm gonna answer this short and sweet. Every single time ive asked about robertson, I get this, "he's behind Greek. Neither one are even remotely close to being ready. But there is a gap between them and huge one w who is playing. Don't know where to go w the ball. Not actuate enough and the sped of the game is just too much"..... hopefully, that will get better w time. We shall se.
    I'm not surprised just based on knowing when they got to school. Greek had the spring and Robertson just got here. As far as the future as you said we shall see. Personally I'm not expecting either one to be ready until 2023 at the very earliest and to be honest that's optimistic. I would project one or the other starting in 2024.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I've been watching on TV so no- I'm not seeing it live and seeing what is going on downfield. I do know we absolutely never have a WR catching a ball wide ass open like you see in every other game on TV every Saturday. Why is that you think? Why are our WR's and RB getting blown up constantly?

    But what watching it on TV does allow me to see is the defense rush 3 play after play- and I can see the underneath players drop on the snap. LB's are taught to take a step forward at the snap as a rule. But against us? They drop on the snap. I dont raise hell on here about Rogers because I know how hard it is for him to throw against 8 play after play. I would never put that on my QB. You are asking the impossible.
    All this. The problem is people in the stands and tv see the entire field. Rogers can only see the part he's looking at. I'm not saying Rogers is perfect, far from it. But he can't see what I came see or anyone else can see. .... and yes. To the lb don't step up. They absolutely freeze or step back. No other threat.... we have issues, first scheme, then the qb Bc he won't throw it down the field. Which might or might not be his fault ... depends who you ask
    Last edited by Homedawg; 09-21-2021 at 10:07 PM.

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    The LB do step forward on a run. From what I can tell watching the Memphis game again, they have OL as a cue and when our OL takes a zone block step they immediately fly downhill. That is why the 2-3 times we used play action against nc state there were open spaces 10-12 yards down field and will hit it. When the OL, pass set, the lb drop.
    Last edited by confucius say; 09-21-2021 at 10:08 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    All this. The problem is people in the stand and tv see the entire field. Rogers can only see the part he's looking at. I'm not saying Rogers is perfect, far from it. But he can't see what I came see or anyone else can see. .... and yes. To the lb don't step up. They absolutely freeze or step back. No other threat.... we have issues, first scheme, then the qb Bc he won't throw it down the field. Which might or might not be his fault ... depends who you ask
    The things that's so perplexing is when Will has been forced to take the shots he's somehow found ways to get the ball downfield, and that's been when we've been behind and defenses are playing prevent for sure. It's hard to comprehend that he takes the check downs or short routes but then all of a sudden we get behind and we're hitting deeper routes. It's dumbfounding to me, maybe someone else has an explanation for it.
    Last edited by Commercecomet24; 09-21-2021 at 10:45 PM.

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    Oh it's clear he looks for them when he "has" to. Just need him to do it more.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    Oh it's clear he looks for them when he "has" to. Just need him to do it more.
    Exactly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I've been watching on TV so no- I'm not seeing it live and seeing what is going on downfield. I do know we absolutely never have a WR catching a ball wide ass open like you see in every other game on TV every Saturday. Why is that you think? Why are our WR's and RB getting blown up constantly?

    But what watching it on TV does allow me to see is the defense rush 3 play after play- and I can see the underneath players drop on the snap. LB's are taught to take a step forward at the snap as a rule. But against us? They drop on the snap. I dont raise hell on here about Rogers because I know how hard it is for him to throw against 8 play after play. I would never put that on my QB. You are asking the impossible.
    This is why anybody on here that bashes our oline or qb automatically loses credibility due to not understanding that they are setup for failure. The most ignorant of all is the captain of the ship..and he likes to bash his players on the regular.
    It's amazing to think that the pinnacle of his coaching career was 2008 and he hasn't made any major adjustments to his scheme since. It seems that anybody else that has done this is without a job.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    All this. The problem is people in the stands and tv see the entire field. Rogers can only see the part he's looking at. I'm not saying Rogers is perfect, far from it. But he can't see what I came see or anyone else can see. .... and yes. To the lb don't step up. They absolutely freeze or step back. No other threat.... we have issues, first scheme, then the qb Bc he won't throw it down the field. Which might or might not be his fault ... depends who you ask
    Homedawg - do you have any intel on whether or not assistants agree/disagree with the scheme? Do we have a dictator unwilling to adapt or an entire staff? I would bet my house that arnette is gone after this year - you can tell something isn't right with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    Homedawg - do you have any intel on whether or not assistants agree/disagree with the scheme? Do we have a dictator unwilling to adapt or an entire staff? I would bet my house that arnette is gone after this year - you can tell something isn't right with him.
    Not homedawg but I can answer this for you. They all came from WSU and believe in the system. If I here them say one more time we are so young and just need more reps I'm gonna puke. AR didn't need more reps, AU didn't need more reps, OM didn't know more reps. It's this staffs version of we need better execution.
    And another thing on the QB, they know they have to win and win big next year and they now realized they had some misses on the QBs in this blast class. They are going to go hard on some transfers. Yet they need more reps?? It's a trainwreck guys
    They have blown up this program and I'm not sure how we get it back without cutting bait.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Which is mind-boggling considering Rogers gets 4 seconds to throw on the reg- and that is unheard of in today's football. But because of our offensive philosophy and throwing it 54 times per game- we see the Prevent play after play after play
    And the scary part is that once he figures out how to beat that defense (if he ever does), then DCs will actually start throwing some hard stuff at him. Right now, they're all gambling that he can't beat the most basic of defenses....and they're winning!

  14. #34
    Senior Member starkvegasdawg's Avatar
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    Run game is abysmal because they're basically going against 9 in the box and the safeties are almost that close. As soon as they see handoff they have the entire team right there because they have no fear of a pass going more than 10 yards downfield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan77 View Post
    Not homedawg but I can answer this for you. They all came from WSU and believe in the system. If I here them say one more time we are so young and just need more reps I'm gonna puke. AR didn't need more reps, AU didn't need more reps, OM didn't know more reps. It's this staffs version of we need better execution.
    And another thing on the QB, they know they have to win and win big next year and they now realized they had some misses on the QBs in this blast class. They are going to go hard on some transfers. Yet they need more reps?? It's a trainwreck guys
    They have blown up this program and I'm not sure how we get it back without cutting bait.
    What is it about Mississippi state that makes us different from the last two stops Leach was at outside of being in the SEC? All of the schools Leach has been too have been the underdog schools of the conference. You can sit here and lie to yourself about us not being that but it is just facts historically speaking. It is shown that their is a slight uptick in production of year 2 of switching over to Mike Leach's style of air raid but you really see the difference in year 3. If we can't give a coach a minimum of 3 years after firing a coach in 2 years we will never be good. I'm not saying Mike Leach is going to work here, hell I've always had my doubts about his scheme but we have at least got to allow him one more year before we can fully declare this will never work. At this point it is almost like we are cheering for him to fail

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg View Post
    Run game is abysmal because they're basically going against 9 in the box and the safeties are almost that close. As soon as they see handoff they have the entire team right there because they have no fear of a pass going more than 10 yards downfield.
    This is the truth. It's why a stronger armed QB & attacking the field vertical would tremendously help our offense
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    What is it about Mississippi state that makes us different from the last two stops Leach was at outside of being in the SEC? All of the schools Leach has been too have been the underdog schools of the conference. You can sit here and lie to yourself about us not being that but it is just facts historically speaking. It is shown that their is a slight uptick in production of year 2 of switching over to Mike Leach's style of air raid but you really see the difference in year 3. If we can't give a coach a minimum of 3 years after firing a coach in 2 years we will never be good. I'm not saying Mike Leach is going to work here, hell I've always had my doubts about his scheme but we have at least got to allow him one more year before we can fully declare this will never work. At this point it is almost like we are cheering for him to fail
    The difference is Leach hasn't adapted at all when even Saban proved you have to constantly evolve an offense and a defense. The best college coach ever had to hire lane kiffin to revamp his offense (his words) even though he had a massive talent gap over most of the teams he faces.

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    Senior Member FISHDAWG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    All this. The problem is people in the stands and tv see the entire field. Rogers can only see the part he's looking at. I'm not saying Rogers is perfect, far from it. But he can't see what I came see or anyone else can see. .... and yes. To the lb don't step up. They absolutely freeze or step back. No other threat.... we have issues, first scheme, then the qb Bc he won't throw it down the field. Which might or might not be his fault ... depends who you ask
    I think the issue is PRIDE. Mike Leach is known as the architect of the Air Raid offense and he wears that like a pride patch. It gives him an air of celebrity. Of course he will continue to promote it - it's like pushing his own brand. Every time the broadcast starts you will hear Mike Leaches Air-Raid and he sees that as promoting himself.
    So this is part of why he refuses to modify or adapt this scheme... The Pirate just isn't enough- right or wrong he wants this legacy and I think it will never change no matter where he is ... Sad thing is I think a modified version that incorporates more RPO and some misdirection as well as being able to have a dead ahead run for 2-4 yards would elevate him in coaching lore more than straight air-raid
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  19. #39
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    What is it about Mississippi state that makes us different from the last two stops Leach was at outside of being in the SEC? All of the schools Leach has been too have been the underdog schools of the conference. You can sit here and lie to yourself about us not being that but it is just facts historically speaking. It is shown that their is a slight uptick in production of year 2 of switching over to Mike Leach's style of air raid but you really see the difference in year 3. If we can't give a coach a minimum of 3 years after firing a coach in 2 years we will never be good. I'm not saying Mike Leach is going to work here, hell I've always had my doubts about his scheme but we have at least got to allow him one more year before we can fully declare this will never work. At this point it is almost like we are cheering for him to fail
    This sounds a lot like Croom speak. If it takes your players 3 years to learn your system in college then we are kind of screwed. We have to see some progress this year. I am not saying putting up 50 points on the regular but we need to actually show some type of offense before the 4th quarter when teams have taken their foot off the gas. Last year, we got a little hope in the UGA and Mizzou games but every other game pretty much sucked. If Arnett wasn't putting a top half of the SEC defense on the field, it would have looked like Croom days. We have enough talent to at least compete in the SEC but that is not happening on offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    What is it about Mississippi state that makes us different from the last two stops Leach was at outside of being in the SEC? All of the schools Leach has been too have been the underdog schools of the conference. You can sit here and lie to yourself about us not being that but it is just facts historically speaking. It is shown that their is a slight uptick in production of year 2 of switching over to Mike Leach's style of air raid but you really see the difference in year 3. If we can't give a coach a minimum of 3 years after firing a coach in 2 years we will never be good. I'm not saying Mike Leach is going to work here, hell I've always had my doubts about his scheme but we have at least got to allow him one more year before we can fully declare this will never work. At this point it is almost like we are cheering for him to fail
    At his other stops he didn't have to play Bama, Auburn, UGA, And LSU. He played the equivalent of Ole miss and KYs. Still lost some of those games and lesser opponents
    He also coached in the Big 12 was flag football on the defensive side

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