Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 47

Thread: Homedawg...

  1. #1
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    33,668
    vCash
    3002900

    Homedawg...

    I've always respected your opinions, and you seem to have a pulse on the backup QB situation based on some recent posts...so I wanted to ask you and any others that want to comment a question or two.

    First off, I'm NOT calling for the backup QB right now.

    That being said, it's pretty common knowledge that our young QB's are more highly recruited and have better arm strength than Will does. We also saw Will come in last year as a true freshman and while he wasn't great, he wasn't as bad as KJ by a long shot.

    So my question is....other than Will being a "film junkie" coming in as a freshman, what is making these young guys such a "huge step back" from Will? I mean, a guy like Greek or Robertson can't hold the ball for 4 seconds and dump it to a RB or throw a 5 yard slant? Because if they can do that, which any QB should be able to do, one would think their increased ability to take some deep shots with stronger arms would make them worth taking a shot at if this season continues down the path of poor offensive output, correct?

    In other words, when you have a QB with a fairly weak arm, that has an issue with throwing the ball down field to open guys, a 6 play playbook, and nothing but zone defenses to familiarize yourself with, and two 4 star QB's in the on deck circle....what is making those two guys such a "huge step back"? How is that possible? How are guys with that much more talent than Will, and only 8 fewer college starts (as everyone wants to keep reminding us), unable to learn 6 plays, dissect 1 defense, and not know how to dump off passes 6 yards down the field if those 6 plays aren't open? It truly makes no sense to me as to how it's even possible to be a "huge drop off".

    So I just want to know what you're seeing in practice, or hearing from practice, to make you confident that Robertson and Greek are so far behind Will. Again, I'm not doubting it, and I'm not calling for them to play right now...I'm simply trying to wrap my head around it bc it makes no sense to me. Can you elaborate with some details?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    30,025
    vCash
    17200
    Very well put- and also- why did we waste the 1st 3 weeks of Fall camp just going against our M2M D knowing we were going to see Drop 8 90% of the time this Fall?
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    8,588
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    I've always respected your opinions, and you seem to have a pulse on the backup QB situation based on some recent posts...so I wanted to ask you and any others that want to comment a question or two.

    First off, I'm NOT calling for the backup QB right now.

    That being said, it's pretty common knowledge that our young QB's are more highly recruited and have better arm strength than Will does. We also saw Will come in last year as a true freshman and while he wasn't great, he wasn't as bad as KJ by a long shot.

    So my question is....other than Will being a "film junkie" coming in as a freshman, what is making these young guys such a "huge step back" from Will? I mean, a guy like Greek or Robertson can't hold the ball for 4 seconds and dump it to a RB or throw a 5 yard slant? Because if they can do that, which any QB should be able to do, one would think their increased ability to take some deep shots with stronger arms would make them worth taking a shot at if this season continues down the path of poor offensive output, correct?

    In other words, when you have a QB with a fairly weak arm, that has an issue with throwing the ball down field to open guys, a 6 play playbook, and nothing but zone defenses to familiarize yourself with, and two 4 star QB's in the on deck circle....what is making those two guys such a "huge step back"? How is that possible? How are guys with that much more talent than Will, and only 8 fewer college starts (as everyone wants to keep reminding us), unable to learn 6 plays, dissect 1 defense, and not know how to dump off passes 6 yards down the field if those 6 plays aren't open? It truly makes no sense to me as to how it's even possible to be a "huge drop off".

    So I just want to know what you're seeing in practice, or hearing from practice, to make you confident that Robertson and Greek are so far behind Will. Again, I'm not doubting it, and I'm not calling for them to play right now...I'm simply trying to wrap my head around it bc it makes no sense to me. Can you elaborate with some details?
    Agree. That was my point the other day about Shrader. He could stand and throw it 5 yards all day but he would at least add the run threat. We been in reverse on O since Leach got here. I don't care about passing records, only about MSU W-L record and us competing. Unless something changes, that won't happen. SEC Ds are circling our game like they do Vandy.

  4. #4
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    72,078
    vCash
    10439
    If there's an ocean between Rogers and our backups, we missed on our backups. I don't think all freshmen are ready to play early, but a 4-star's talent would show through if he's a true 4-star. I'm beginning to think we'll be hitting the "free agent" circuit hard this offseason.

    ETA... now if the gap is closing every week, maybe we didn't miss. The gap should be closing though...

    ETA2... it's not like we recruited Sawyer from a triple option offense. He shouldn't be terribly raw throwing, and he should be picking up the offense
    Last edited by msstate7; 09-21-2021 at 12:04 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    37,276
    vCash
    3700
    The player I watched for Lubbock Coronado last year was light years better than Rogers in HS. It's mal-practice if that guy is truly 4th string.

    No 17ing way
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

    Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More

  6. #6
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    30,025
    vCash
    17200
    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    SEC Ds are circling our game like they do Vandy.
    I dont think they are. DC's are bored to hell and back playing Prevent the whole game. Thats why they switch it up a few times here and there- to avoid falling asleep coaching against Wishbone 2020. We're bored watching it as fans. Imagine how bored LSU's DC is watching cut ups of 50 passes in 3 games to RB's. Their LB coach in meetings is having to stress dont get a targeting call when you blow up our RB as he catches the ball. Safeties coach is telling them to "keep your ass on the hash because they will never throw deep if you do". I'd be going- "call the GA's in here and make them watch this garbage. Clip a play if they somehow do something different"
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  7. #7
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    37,276
    vCash
    3700
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I dont think they are. DC's are bored to hell and back playing Prevent the whole game. Thats why they switch it up a few times here and there- to avoid falling asleep coaching against Wishbone 2020. We're bored watching it as fans. Imagine how bored LSU's DC is watching cut ups of 50 passes in 3 games to RB's. Their LB coach in meetings is having to stress dont get a targeting call when you blow up our RB as he catches the ball. Safeties coach is telling them to "keep your ass on the hash because they will never throw deep if you do". I'd be going- "call the GA's in here and make them watch this garbage. Clip a play if they somehow do something different"
    This is funny and some truth. Fixing QB I believe would go a long ways in fixing this.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

    Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More

  8. #8
    Senior Member defiantdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    5,679
    vCash
    7213
    The Manning's pointed something out last night that was interesting. Detroit kept running cover 2 against GB all night to play against the big plays. They were talking about the GB offense staying patient and take chances when you get opportunities. And every time Detroit switched and played man, Rodgers would hurl it downfield. Even on 3rd and short plays. Our Rogers seems to try to force it even when it's not there..... Might be why he hangs on to the ball so much. Hopefully this is something he learns in time to take what the defense gives you and open it up when you get your opportunities.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    10,651
    vCash
    3500
    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    If there's an ocean between Rogers and our backups, we missed on our backups. I don't think all freshmen are ready to play early, but a 4-star's talent would show through if he's a true 4-star. I'm beginning to think we'll be hitting the "free agent" circuit hard this offseason.

    ETA... now if the gap is closing every week, maybe we didn't miss. The gap should be closing though...

    ETA2... it's not like we recruited Sawyer from a triple option offense. He shouldn't be terribly raw throwing, and he should be picking up the offense
    We also aren't talking about true freshmen beating out a veteran. Will didn't have a Spring or Summer practice and was sick the first few weeks of last year. He has 7 or so game experience over Greek. So 3 or so months is the big difference? They both went through Spring and Summer practice. I could see Robertson being behind since he wasn't here in Spring but why would there be such a big difference in Rogers and Greek?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Gutter Cobreh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,944
    vCash
    2000000000
    Quote Originally Posted by defiantdog View Post
    The Manning's pointed something out last night that was interesting. Detroit kept running cover 2 against GB all night to play against the big plays. They were talking about the GB offense staying patient and take chances when you get opportunities. And every time Detroit switched and played man, Rodgers would hurl it downfield. Even on 3rd and short plays. Our Rogers seems to try to force it even when it's not there..... Might be why he hangs on to the ball so much. Hopefully this is something he learns in time to take what the defense gives you and open it up when you get your opportunities.
    It's a never ending cycle. What was mentioned on that broadcast was to continue running the ball until they brought those safeties up. Leach's system doesn't incorporate the run enough, and thus you end up with a lot of check downs to the RB.

    The fact remains, until Leach changes (which isn't going to happen) - we're stuck in an endless cycle of regurgitating the same information week in and week out...

  11. #11
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    10,651
    vCash
    3500
    Quote Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh View Post
    It's a never ending cycle. What was mentioned on that broadcast was to continue running the ball until they brought those safeties up. Leach's system doesn't incorporate the run enough, and thus you end up with a lot of check downs to the RB.

    The fact remains, until Leach changes (which isn't going to happen) - we're stuck in an endless cycle of regurgitating the same information week in and week out...
    It seems like Leach's offense is purely based on crossing routes confusing the defense and the QB just has to wait long enough for someone to get open. If not, throw it down to the RB and he hopefully makes someone miss and get big YAC. Unfortunately, SEC defenses are a lot better at tackling so those long runs by RBs are turning into 1-2 yard passes.

  12. #12
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    13,168
    vCash
    4975
    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    It seems like Leach's offense is purely based on crossing routes confusing the defense and the QB just has to wait long enough for someone to get open. If not, throw it down to the RB and he hopefully makes someone miss and get big YAC. Unfortunately, SEC defenses are a lot better at tackling so those long runs by RBs are turning into 1-2 yard passes.
    McIntyre moved a linebacker to cover the RB. In doing so the zone in the middle of the field increased. This caused Austin Williams to be open almost every play for a quick ten yards before a defender adjusted and closed on him. As soon as Will looked to the RB to dump off the LB was jetting his three or four yards to tackle him. Will takes too damn long. We have guys open.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    40,210
    vCash
    3700
    Will actually got to MSU when Moorhead was the coach for bowl practice. Sawyer just got here for fall camp. So he's only been here a couple of months. And yes that's a big difference.

    I think Sawyer hurt us inadvertently by not being here in the spring.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,440
    vCash
    3700
    Greek:, big that's it.. was a reach was always going to be 2nd qb in a class
    Robertson: more focused on baseball than football. Has the physical tools but heads not in it.
    Neither can beat out a 5"9 walk on from south Alabama

  15. #15
    Senior Member Turfdawg67's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    4,860
    vCash
    3100
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Very well put- and also- why did we waste the 1st 3 weeks of Fall camp just going against our M2M D knowing we were going to see Drop 8 90% of the time this Fall?
    Huh? Why would our D practice something they'd almost never run? They have to prepare too right? Or did I miss something here?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    30,025
    vCash
    17200
    Quote Originally Posted by Turfdawg67 View Post
    Huh? Why would our D practice something they'd almost never run? They have to prepare too right? Or did I miss something here?
    At practice- You can have 1's vs 1's and each group run their shit and compete.

    But it's coaching malpractice not to have the offense going against the defense they will see 90% of the time for the 1st 3 weeks of practice. You put a defense on a playcard and tell those mf'ers to run it and help the offense. Just like you have playcards with opponents offense on it- and have the offense run it for the defense.

    This isnt rocket surgery
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    13,253
    vCash
    3700
    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    I've always respected your opinions, and you seem to have a pulse on the backup QB situation based on some recent posts...so I wanted to ask you and any others that want to comment a question or two.

    First off, I'm NOT calling for the backup QB right now.

    That being said, it's pretty common knowledge that our young QB's are more highly recruited and have better arm strength than Will does. We also saw Will come in last year as a true freshman and while he wasn't great, he wasn't as bad as KJ by a long shot.

    So my question is....other than Will being a "film junkie" coming in as a freshman, what is making these young guys such a "huge step back" from Will? I mean, a guy like Greek or Robertson can't hold the ball for 4 seconds and dump it to a RB or throw a 5 yard slant? Because if they can do that, which any QB should be able to do, one would think their increased ability to take some deep shots with stronger arms would make them worth taking a shot at if this season continues down the path of poor offensive output, correct?

    In other words, when you have a QB with a fairly weak arm, that has an issue with throwing the ball down field to open guys, a 6 play playbook, and nothing but zone defenses to familiarize yourself with, and two 4 star QB's in the on deck circle....what is making those two guys such a "huge step back"? How is that possible? How are guys with that much more talent than Will, and only 8 fewer college starts (as everyone wants to keep reminding us), unable to learn 6 plays, dissect 1 defense, and not know how to dump off passes 6 yards down the field if those 6 plays aren't open? It truly makes no sense to me as to how it's even possible to be a "huge drop off".

    So I just want to know what you're seeing in practice, or hearing from practice, to make you confident that Robertson and Greek are so far behind Will. Again, I'm not doubting it, and I'm not calling for them to play right now...I'm simply trying to wrap my head around it bc it makes no sense to me. Can you elaborate with some details?
    I'm gonna answer this short and sweet. Every single time ive asked about robertson, I get this, "he's behind Greek. Neither one are even remotely close to being ready. But there is a gap between them and huge one w who is playing. Don't know where to go w the ball. Not actuate enough and the sped of the game is just too much"..... hopefully, that will get better w time. We shall se.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    30,025
    vCash
    17200
    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    I'm gonna answer this short and sweet. Every single time ive asked about robertson, I get this, "he's behind Greek. Neither one are even remotely close to being ready. But there is a gap between them and huge one w who is playing. Don't know where to go w the ball. Not actuate enough and the sped of the game is just too much"..... hopefully, that will get better w time. We shall se.
    Which is mind-boggling considering Rogers gets 4 seconds to throw on the reg- and that is unheard of in today's football. But because of our offensive philosophy and throwing it 54 times per game- we see the Prevent play after play after play
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  19. #19
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    33,668
    vCash
    3002900
    Quote Originally Posted by Homedawg View Post
    I'm gonna answer this short and sweet. Every single time ive asked about robertson, I get this, "he's behind Greek. Neither one are even remotely close to being ready. But there is a gap between them and huge one w who is playing. Don't know where to go w the ball. Not actuate enough and the sped of the game is just too much"..... hopefully, that will get better w time. We shall se.
    Thanks man

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    13,253
    vCash
    3700
    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Thanks man
    Any time. Just don't shoot the messenger. Which I'm waiting for... but oh well...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Disclaimer: Elitedawgs is a privately owned and operated forum that is managed by alumni of Mississippi State University. This website is in no way affiliated with the Mississippi State University, The Southeastern Conference (SEC) or the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). The views and opinions expressed herein are strictly those of the post author and may not reflect the views of other members of this forum or elitedawgs.com. The interactive nature of the elitedawgs.com forums makes it impossible for elitedawgs.com to assume responsibility for any of the content posted at this site. Ideas, thoughts, suggestion, comments, opinions, advice and observations made by participants at elitedawgs.com are not endorsed by elitedawgs.com
Elitedawgs: A Mississippi State Fan Forum, Mississippi State Football, Mississippi State Basketball, Mississippi State Baseball, Mississippi State Athletics. Mississippi State message board.