Here is what it comes down to with Leach and the offense

[Jarius]

Wanna bet?

Do I want to bet that if Will doesn’t start throwing the ball down the field more often that we go 4-8? Yes I do. Name your price.

[Bass Chaser]

Think about this also:

Leach has had the benefit of the transfer portal here at State. He didnt have that luxury at TT or Wazzu

Sorry but you're wrong on this one. That's how he got Minshew.

[Bass Chaser]

Fyi...Shotgun is Colonel Kang. He posts the same shit on every board.

[dawgman15]

Why are tight ends not utilized in the air raid offense? I would think that they could be a major component for the air raid since they can block on the line as well

[HancockCountyDog]

We weren't?

Did WSU have a freshman starting at QB in year 1? DId WSU have mostly Freshmen WR in year 2?

Just because our record was better they year prior, does not equal us being in better shape for the offense as WSU was.

But that doesn't fit your "pet name for MSU coach" schick.

Our team had an NFL RB, a solid OL, a transfer senior QB that was a projected NFL draft pick and a very good SEC defense with multiple NFL players on it. Please tell me again how Leach walked into a program that was down.

Dear god, the excuses people make for him.

[Johnson85]

Our team had an NFL RB, a solid OL, a transfer senior QB that was a projected NFL draft pick and a very good SEC defense with multiple NFL players on it. Please tell me again how Leach walked into a program that was down.

Dear god, the excuses people make for him.

Dear god, people making up bullshit narratives about the tools he had. We had one above average SEC WR last year in Walley. Heath looks the part but certainly wasn't there last year. And he had an NFL RB that had been ruined by the prior coach. Hill was just somebody that needed a firm hand, but by the time Leach got here, hill was so used to not being held accountable that he reacted poorly to it. Those projecting Costello to be an NFL draft pick were obviously wrong.

Look, Leach has not done a good job so far. There's no really disputing that. A better coach could be implementing his offense while also making slight adjustments to play to the strengths of the players he had. Hopefully Leach is building towards something and just needs a QB to make it work, either from Will improving or from the transfer portal. But there's no sense in making up bullshit narratives about the shape the team was in when he got here. He had a team that did not fit his scheme and a major culture issue, which cost him what would have otherwise been good pieces. It wasn't a bad team as far as talent goes, it just didn't fit what his offense and he's not a good enough coach to adjust the scheme to his players, but is a good enough coach to put together some good teams that can run his offense. Hopefully that last part is still true like it was at Texas Tech and WSU.

[HancockCountyDog]

Dear god, people making up bullshit narratives about the tools he had. We had one above average SEC WR last year in Walley. Heath looks the part but certainly wasn't there last year. And he had an NFL RB that had been ruined by the prior coach. Hill was just somebody that needed a firm hand, but by the time Leach got here, hill was so used to not being held accountable that he reacted poorly to it. Those projecting Costello to be an NFL draft pick were obviously wrong.

Look, Leach has not done a good job so far. There's no really disputing that. A better coach could be implementing his offense while also making slight adjustments to play to the strengths of the players he had. Hopefully Leach is building towards something and just needs a QB to make it work, either from Will improving or from the transfer portal. But there's no sense in making up bullshit narratives about the shape the team was in when he got here. He had a team that did not fit his scheme and a major culture issue, which cost him what would have otherwise been good pieces. It wasn't a bad team as far as talent goes, it just didn't fit what his offense and he's not a good enough coach to adjust the scheme to his players, but is a good enough coach to put together some good teams that can run his offense. Hopefully that last part is still true like it was at Texas Tech and WSU.

We had enough talent to beat beat the shit out of the reigning National Champs at their place to start the season.

Then again, that was one of the few teams that didn't run a 3-8 defense against him. That doesn't speak to us not being talented, but instead speaks to him not being able to adjust.

[dawgman15]

We had enough talent to beat beat the shit out of the reigning National Champs at their place to start the season.

Then again, that was one of the few teams that didn't run a 3-8 defense against him. That doesn't speak to us not being talented, but instead speaks to him not being able to adjust.

Not trying to take sides but that LSU team of 2020 was much different than the 2019 national champions. I watched the replay yesterday. They lost 17 starters from their 2019 team as well as Joe Brady.

[HancockCountyDog]

Not trying to take sides but that LSU team of 2020 was much different than the 2019 national champions. I watched the replay yesterday. They lost 17 starters from their 2019 team as well as Joe Brady.

Of course they were, look no one is saying that Leach was handed the keys to a dynamic 10 win type team. He wasn't.

He was left with a damn solid defense and enough pieces on offense to be a solid team. One good enough to beat LSU in Baton Rouge.

This whole "He needs time to get his players that fit his system" is simply bullshit. Mullen came here in 2009 and took over a program that had been embarrassed on Thanksgiving and was devoid of talent. He didn't say "well we will be good in a few years once Dak gets here".

He got it done with the hand he was dealt and crafted an offense that beat the dogshit out of the bears, one year after one of the worst losses in our history to the bears. That is called coaching. We did not hire Leach to install the air raid offense at MSU. We hired him to win games, right now, not 3 years from now.

You adapt your game plan to the talent you have.

Also, he handpicked Costello to run his offense and no one was complaining about the talent level on our offense when we were setting records against that dipshit of a DC that kept trying to blitz Leach. Unfortunately, the rest of the SEC watched the apple cup tape and adjusted. Unless we run into more dumbass DC's we have to adjust. I'm not sure why i'm trying to convince people that our coach should be putting our players in the best position to win games right now, but hell it looks like that is up for debate for some people.

[Commercecomet24]

Of course they were, look no one is saying that Leach was handed the keys to a dynamic 10 win type team. He wasn't.

He was left with a damn solid defense and enough pieces on offense to be a solid team. One good enough to beat LSU in Baton Rouge.

This whole "He needs time to get his players that fit his system" is simply bullshit. Mullen came here in 2009 and took over a program that had been embarrassed on Thanksgiving and was devoid of talent. He didn't say "well we will be good in a few years once Dak gets here".

He got it done with the hand he was dealt and crafted an offense that beat the dogshit out of the bears, one year after one of the worst losses in our history to the bears. That is called coaching. We did not hire Leach to install the air raid offense at MSU. We hired him to win games, right now, not 3 years from now.

You adapt your game plan to the talent you have.

Also, he handpicked Costello to run his offense and no one was complaining about the talent level on our offense when we were setting records against that dipshit of a DC that kept trying to blitz Leach. Unfortunately, the rest of the SEC watched the apple cup tape and adjusted. Unless we run into more dumbass DC's we have to adjust. I'm not sure why i'm trying to convince people that our coach should be putting our players in the best position to win games right now, but hell it looks like that is up for debate for some people.

I agree with some of that, but saying Mullen inherited team "devoid of talent" is simply not true. There were 14 NFL draft picks from that team ******* inherited and several UDFA that made rosters.

ETA In fact looking back at how much talent ******* did have on that first roster it might be said that he actually underachieved.

[HancockCountyDog]

I agre with some of that, but saying Mullen inherited team "devoid of talent" is simply not true. There were 14 NFL draft picks from that team ******* inherited and several UDFA that made rosters

Most of those were from his first signing class. I think Sherrod, Chaney, KJ Wright, and Kyle Love were the only returning players from the 2008 team that went on to play in the NFL.

The 2009 recruiting class was one of the best in MSU history. Probably the best thing Croom ever did for MSU was handoff that recruiting class for Mullen. It was the reason we were able to be a Scam Newton away from competing for a national title in 2010.

[Commercecomet24]

Most of those were from his first signing class. I think Sherrod, Chaney, KJ Wright, and Kyle Love were the only returning players from the 2008 team that went on to play in the NFL.

The 2009 recruiting class was one of the best in MSU history. Probably the best thing Croom ever did for MSU was handoff that recruiting class for Mullen. It was the reason we were able to be a Scam Newton away from competing for a national title in 2010.

Actually I made a mistake there were 15 NFL draft picks on that first team(i missed Marcus Green). Only 5 were freshmen though so the team was very well stocked with upper class talent, but your point about adapting to your talent is very valid.

[BrunswickDawg]

Most of those were from his first signing class. I think Sherrod, Chaney, KJ Wright, and Kyle Love were the only returning players from the 2008 team that went on to play in the NFL.

The 2009 recruiting class was one of the best in MSU history. Probably the best thing Croom ever did for MSU was handoff that recruiting class for Mullen. It was the reason we were able to be a Scam Newton away from competing for a national title in 2010.

Add Dixon, Arceto Clark (Practice Sq), & Charles Mitchell to that list

[Commercecomet24]

Add Dixon, Arceto Clark (Practice Sq), & Charles Mitchell to that list

And you also had Chris White and Big Pern.

[Commercecomet24]

Add Dixon, Arceto Clark (Practice Sq), & Charles Mitchell to that list

It may have also been one of the most talented OL's we've ever had at State. JC Brignone, Craig Jenkins, Quentin Saulsberry, Addison Lawrence, Derek Sherrod, that's a pretty dang good OL.

[BrunswickDawg]

And you also had Chris White and Big Pern.

White and Pern were JUCO transfers in in '09. Quinten Saulsberry was also on the '08 team, spent 1 season on the Broncos.

[Commercecomet24]

White and Pern were JUCO transfers in in '09. Quinten Saulsberry was also on the '08 team, spent 1 season on the Broncos.

Right, also Gabe Jackson was on '09 team but redshirted. When you look back there was a lot of really good players on that team. Croom had an eye for talent obviously, but just wasn't a head coach. He left Dan in great shape talent wise.

[Maverick91]

Right, also Gabe Jackson was on '09 team but redshirted. When you look back there was a lot of really good players on that team. Croom had an eye for talent obviously, but just wasn't a head coach. He left Dan in great shape talent wise.

and there wasn't the locker room issues that Leach walked into.

[Coach34]

Sorry but you're wrong on this one. That's how he got Minshew.

I’m talking about when taking over the programs.

[Coach34]

We weren't?

Did WSU have a freshman starting at QB in year 1? DId WSU have mostly Freshmen WR in year 2?

Just because our record was better they year prior, does not equal us being in better shape for the offense as WSU was.

But that doesn't fit your "pet name for MSU coach" schick.

Leach inherited a future NFL draft pick at RB who was also the SEC’s leading returning rusher
He also had an experienced group of WR’s and a grad transfer QB that had been successful on the P5 level

Washington State didn’t have that