Here is what it comes down to with Leach and the offense

[Coach34]

His offense is not getting enough explosive plays- period. It is Wishbone 2020. Southern defenses with their speed plus their willingness to play the 3-8 the whole game has really hampered the effectiveness of the offense.

10+ yardage plays:

2017 Wash St- 17th in the country
2018 Wash St- 17th in the country
2019 Wash St- 6th in the country
2020 Miss State- 54th in the country
2021 Miss State- 65th in the country

20+ yardage plays:

2017 WS- 40th
2018 WS- 70th
2019- Tied 23rd
2020 State- 68th
2021 State- 72nd

We were 13th and 10th in the SEC last year
We are 12th and 9th this year with more experience and about as good of a WR group as we will ever have at State. We havent started facing the good defenses yet.

We will not make double digit drives against SEC defenses drive after drive. We have to change something because this isnt working.

[confucius say]

How do our 2020 numbers in those categories compare to wash st 2012 numbers vs conference opponents? Curious to know if they were as bad as ours in 2020.

[Coach34]

How do our 2020 numbers in those categories compare to wash st 2012 numbers vs conference opponents? Curious to know if they were as bad as ours in 2020.

75th and 51st in 2012
24th and 74th in 2013

We were not as down as Wash State was when Leach took over though.

[SheltonChoked]

75th and 51st in 2012
24th and 74th in 2013

We were not as down as Wash State was when Leach took over though.

We weren't?

Did WSU have a freshman starting at QB in year 1? DId WSU have mostly Freshmen WR in year 2?

Just because our record was better they year prior, does not equal us being in better shape for the offense as WSU was.

But that doesn't fit your "pet name for MSU coach" schick.

[HancockCountyDog]

We weren't?

Did WSU have a freshman starting at QB in year 1? DId WSU have mostly Freshmen WR in year 2?

Just because our record was better they year prior, does not equal us being in better shape for the offense as WSU was.

But that doesn't fit your "pet name for MSU coach" schick.

Our team had an NFL RB, a solid OL, a transfer senior QB that was a projected NFL draft pick and a very good SEC defense with multiple NFL players on it. Please tell me again how Leach walked into a program that was down.

Dear god, the excuses people make for him.

[Johnson85]

Our team had an NFL RB, a solid OL, a transfer senior QB that was a projected NFL draft pick and a very good SEC defense with multiple NFL players on it. Please tell me again how Leach walked into a program that was down.

Dear god, the excuses people make for him.

Dear god, people making up bullshit narratives about the tools he had. We had one above average SEC WR last year in Walley. Heath looks the part but certainly wasn't there last year. And he had an NFL RB that had been ruined by the prior coach. Hill was just somebody that needed a firm hand, but by the time Leach got here, hill was so used to not being held accountable that he reacted poorly to it. Those projecting Costello to be an NFL draft pick were obviously wrong.

Look, Leach has not done a good job so far. There's no really disputing that. A better coach could be implementing his offense while also making slight adjustments to play to the strengths of the players he had. Hopefully Leach is building towards something and just needs a QB to make it work, either from Will improving or from the transfer portal. But there's no sense in making up bullshit narratives about the shape the team was in when he got here. He had a team that did not fit his scheme and a major culture issue, which cost him what would have otherwise been good pieces. It wasn't a bad team as far as talent goes, it just didn't fit what his offense and he's not a good enough coach to adjust the scheme to his players, but is a good enough coach to put together some good teams that can run his offense. Hopefully that last part is still true like it was at Texas Tech and WSU.

[Coach34]

We weren't?

Did WSU have a freshman starting at QB in year 1? DId WSU have mostly Freshmen WR in year 2?

Just because our record was better they year prior, does not equal us being in better shape for the offense as WSU was.

But that doesn't fit your "pet name for MSU coach" schick.

Leach inherited a future NFL draft pick at RB who was also the SEC’s leading returning rusher
He also had an experienced group of WR’s and a grad transfer QB that had been successful on the P5 level

Washington State didn’t have that

[confucius say]

75th and 51st in 2012
24th and 74th in 2013

We were not as down as Wash State was when Leach took over though.

Interesting.

As a passing team, we were almost dead last in fbs when he took over. 109th in the country.

[Tbonewannabe]

Interesting.

As a passing team, we were almost dead last in fbs when he took over. 109th in the country.

We were extremely run heavy in Moorhead's scheme especially when it came to SEC games. Kylin Hill was one of the top RBs in the SEC and Moorhead's passing offense wasn't good against the speed of SEC defenses. It is similar to the problems that Leach is having. His offense just isn't successful since it is basically playing 10 vs 11. Shrader and Hill made our offense go but Shrader was a far better scrambler than he was a passing QB.

[CadaverDawg]

Agree.

Hard to have big plays when you rarely throw the ball beyond a 10-15 yard area though. Not that you can't have explosive plays on short routes, but when a defense only feels they have to defend 15 yards, it makes it extremely difficult to bust one. You also need a QB that has an arm that scares the opponent....we don't. And if not, you need a QB that scares the D with his legs so they have to creep up....we don't.

All of this being said, it's not working, and Leach has said he has his system and he's not changing it....Sooooo........wtf are we doing?

[HoopsDawg]

This is what we have bought with our 5 milly a year. We have bought a coach who is married to a system. Adjustments need to be made, but Leach will not look within. He will look to the players and say things like execution. He is not going to change the system that has made him rich and famous. Our next coach needs to be a leader of men, a culture builder, a CEO, not a system guy.

[Johnson85]

This is what we have bought with our 5 milly a year. We have bought a coach who is married to a system. Adjustments need to be made, but Leach will not look within. He will look to the players and say things like execution. He is not going to change the system that has made him rich and famous. Our next coach needs to be a leader of men, a culture builder, a CEO, not a system guy.

In fairness to leach, execution will beat Memphis, La Tech, and NCSt. He may need to adjust the system to beat better teams, but we should be able to execute well enough to beat those three and not need a miracle comeback or be subject to the refs 17ing us with one or two calls.

I don't mind him wanting to see us execute at a reasonable level before making changes to a system he believes will work. But he needs to figure out why we are so shitty at execution after 12 games. If he can't figure out why we suck at execution and fix it in the next few games, he needs to be making adjustments now.

[Tbonewannabe]

In fairness to leach, execution will beat Memphis, La Tech, and NCSt. He may need to adjust the system to beat better teams, but we should be able to execute well enough to beat those three and not need a miracle comeback or be subject to the refs 17ing us with one or two calls.

I don't mind him wanting to see us execute at a reasonable level before making changes to a system he believes will work. But he needs to figure out why we are so shitty at execution after 12 games. If he can't figure out why we suck at execution and fix it in the next few games, he needs to be making adjustments now.

Also, if it takes a high level execution to even put up average points against shitty defenses (the only defense that we have put up more points than any opponent is NC State) then what will happen in the SEC.

Moorhead's offense was putting up 50-60 points on shitty defenses like La Tech and Memphis and couldn't do shit in the SEC. Leach isn't even doing that. If we go another year against SEC defenses looking like a monkey 17ing a football, I think that is enough proof that Leach's offense just doesn't work against SEC defensive speed. Same shit as Moorhead. SEC speeds up decision making and most college QBs aren't equipped to run it successfully. If you need a NFL level starting QB to run your offense then MSU doesn't need it. We have exactly one QB in MSU history that fits that bill.

For everyone saying Leach's offense has open receivers, so did Moorhead's offense. It doesn't matter when the QB can't process the decisions fast enough to get them the ball. I will say that Will is young so he should get faster in where to go with the ball but if you can't do it against Memphis who gave up almost 60 points the week before to Ark St then you damn sure aren't doing it against Bama, A&M, or LSU. I will say LSU is kind of in a spiral so this weekend could give people hope like fool's gold.

[Maroonthirteen]

Also, if it takes a high level execution to even put up average points against shitty defenses (the only defense that we have put up more points than any opponent is NC State) then what will happen in the SEC.

Moorhead's offense was putting up 50-60 points on shitty defenses like La Tech and Memphis and couldn't do shit in the SEC. Leach isn't even doing that. If we go another year against SEC defenses looking like a monkey 17ing a football, I think that is enough proof that Leach's offense just doesn't work against SEC defensive speed. Same shit as Moorhead. SEC speeds up decision making and most college QBs aren't equipped to run it successfully. If you need a NFL level starting QB to run your offense then MSU doesn't need it. We have exactly one QB in MSU history that fits that bill.

For everyone saying Leach's offense has open receivers, so did Moorhead's offense. It doesn't matter when the QB can't process the decisions fast enough to get them the ball. I will say that Will is young so he should get faster in where to go with the ball but if you can't do it against Memphis who gave up almost 60 points the week before to Ark St then you damn sure aren't doing it against Bama, A&M, or LSU. I will say LSU is kind of in a spiral so this weekend could give people hope like fool's gold.

Boom. Exactly. Arron Rodgers missed an open guy last night. It happens.

Also, last time we played Memphis in Memphis, Chris Relf was completing 50+ yard TD passes and beat the brakes off Memphis, 59-14.

[Johnson85]

Also, if it takes a high level execution to even put up average points against shitty defenses (the only defense that we have put up more points than any opponent is NC State) then what will happen in the SEC.

Moorhead's offense was putting up 50-60 points on shitty defenses like La Tech and Memphis and couldn't do shit in the SEC. Leach isn't even doing that. If we go another year against SEC defenses looking like a monkey 17ing a football, I think that is enough proof that Leach's offense just doesn't work against SEC defensive speed. Same shit as Moorhead. SEC speeds up decision making and most college QBs aren't equipped to run it successfully. If you need a NFL level starting QB to run your offense then MSU doesn't need it. We have exactly one QB in MSU history that fits that bill.

For everyone saying Leach's offense has open receivers, so did Moorhead's offense. It doesn't matter when the QB can't process the decisions fast enough to get them the ball. I will say that Will is young so he should get faster in where to go with the ball but if you can't do it against Memphis who gave up almost 60 points the week before to Ark St then you damn sure aren't doing it against Bama, A&M, or LSU. I will say LSU is kind of in a spiral so this weekend could give people hope like fool's gold.

It doesn't take a high level of execution to put up average points against shitty defenses. Leach offenses have routinely done that. We aren't executing for shit is the problem. I don't know why that is; I hope to hell Leach knows.

It certainly might take an unrealistic level of execution to score against good SEC defenses, in which case we will have made a mistake giving the air raid a shot. But if Leach all the sudden can't get an offense to execute well enough to score against La Tech, Memphis, and NCSt, then the problem is Leach has either forgotten how to coach or has quit coaching. Those are defenses that he has routinely lit up over the years.

[maroonmania]

It doesn't take a high level of execution to put up average points against shitty defenses. Leach offenses have routinely done that. We aren't executing for shit is the problem. I don't know why that is; I hope to hell Leach knows.

It certainly might take an unrealistic level of execution to score against good SEC defenses, in which case we will have made a mistake giving the air raid a shot. But if Leach all the sudden can't get an offense to execute well enough to score against La Tech, Memphis, and NCSt, then the problem is Leach has either forgotten how to coach or has quit coaching. Those are defenses that he has routinely lit up over the years.

Exactly, in 3 games this year against non-SEC defenses, we have averaged 100 yards and 8.5 points less per game than the WSU offense did for the entire season in 2019 (Leach's final year there). After we play the next 3 games (LSU, TA&M and Bama) that disparity is going to get much worse. Now PAC 12 defenses aren't great but most are every bit as good or better than average CUSA and AAC defenses. So the problem has nothing to do with the scheme not working against SEC defenses. Problem is that our offense is just not executing the scheme the same way or at the same level it has under Leach at his other stops. I mean Cohen is not a total idiot. We would not have hired Leach if the air raid scheme had significantly ramped down in effectiveness during Leach's last few years at WSU. Another of our problems is offensive penalties. We are averaging just over 400 yards/game so far but that is against the backdrop of around 80-90 penalty yards per game with a bunch of holding calls. Factor that in and we are really gaining no more than around 350 yards per game. That ain't gonna cut it.

[CarolinaDawgs]

We can be successful..
Leach has to convince Will that it wont be a pick every time you throw it down the field. Its probably tough for Will to trust anything down the field after watch Costello throw it to the wrong team half the year last year.

Playing not to lose aint the same as playing to win. I'm in the camp of **** it if you throw a pick down the field. We need a unapologetic & confident gunslinger. If will could spice in a little bit of that the world is his oyster.

[Maverick91]

The only thing that could save us is if we have Brett Farve.... dude would throw soooooo many picks, but, dang it would be fun to watc him dice up a defense.

[shoeless joe]

It appears that when the chips are down and we HAVE to move the ball in a hurry Rogers is willing to push it down field and has success. This has been the case several time this year. Are we running different plays when this happens? The defenses are still dropping back into coverage so what’s the difference other than Rogers actually throwing the ball down field?

[CarolinaDawgs]

It appears that when the chips are down and we HAVE to move the ball in a hurry Rogers is willing to push it down field and has success. This has been the case several time this year. Are we running different plays when this happens? The defenses are still dropping back into coverage so what’s the difference other than Rogers actually throwing the ball down field?

I honestly think it is because he doesn't have a choice and trusts his instincts. Needs that from the get go. He's just scared to make a mistake rather than to make a play until he is forced to. Only thing that makes sense to me.