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Thread: Here is what it comes down to with Leach and the offense

  1. #81
    Bennie Brown Know-It-All
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    It is hard to see how anyone can watch our games and come away with any other opinion than we have a major problem at quarterback. There are obviously some relatives or extremely close friends of Wills on here that are taking up for him and I?m sure Will is an excellent person but he is an awful quarterback right now. If he does not start throwing the ball down the field we are going to go 4-8.

  2. #82
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    That's exactly what I'm saying. You guys don't see it and are wrong.
    Ok Uncle Rico. Go throw a football over them mountains and relive your glory days. I can't believe you have the time to grace us with your presence in between training NFL QB's how to excel.

  3. #83
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Ok Uncle Rico. Go throw a football over them mountains and relive your glory days. I can't believe you have the time to grace us with your presence in between training NFL QB's how to excel.
    Ok. You've been presented the correct information. I can't help you any further.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

    Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Ok. You've been presented the correct information. I can't help you any further.
    Uncle Rico would you please teach me your ways so that one day I too may be as good as you in evaluating talent?

  5. #85
    Senior Member FISHDAWG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Live look at the Shotgun QB Evaluation Camp

    Tried to Rep you on this... an enormous lol
    OXFORD, Miss. (WTVA) - Ole Miss campus police ask students to behave at future baseball games following a recent incident.
    The university said students were reportedly throwing rocks at Georgia baseball players during last weekend's series.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISHDAWG View Post
    Tried to Rep you on this... an enormous lol
    It looks like U Rico got as good as he is through practice, practice, practice.

    Methinks, Will, will get better and better as he plays. If he doesn't, we had better pray one of the others behind him, through practice, can pass him.

  7. #87
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    I have heard CML?s offense described as a death by papercuts. Annoys DCs with underneath stuff hoping they move to stop it, making them vulnerable in the middle and up top. That coach that OM had that?s now at UNC runs a variation of AirRaid and if you saw any of his games at OM, they stacked up stats from 20-20, but couldn?t score when the field compressed in the red zone. If Tamu didn?t hit for a long pass, they couldn?t score. The stats can be deceiving. Much like OM in a similar system, our stats look great on paper, but don?t really benefit us where it counts. I hate to say it, but I just don?t think one dimensional football can work unless everyone is one dimensional and they aren?t.

  8. #88
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson85 View Post
    It doesn't take a high level of execution to put up average points against shitty defenses. Leach offenses have routinely done that. We aren't executing for shit is the problem. I don't know why that is; I hope to hell Leach knows.

    It certainly might take an unrealistic level of execution to score against good SEC defenses, in which case we will have made a mistake giving the air raid a shot. But if Leach all the sudden can't get an offense to execute well enough to score against La Tech, Memphis, and NCSt, then the problem is Leach has either forgotten how to coach or has quit coaching. Those are defenses that he has routinely lit up over the years.
    Exactly, in 3 games this year against non-SEC defenses, we have averaged 100 yards and 8.5 points less per game than the WSU offense did for the entire season in 2019 (Leach's final year there). After we play the next 3 games (LSU, TA&M and Bama) that disparity is going to get much worse. Now PAC 12 defenses aren't great but most are every bit as good or better than average CUSA and AAC defenses. So the problem has nothing to do with the scheme not working against SEC defenses. Problem is that our offense is just not executing the scheme the same way or at the same level it has under Leach at his other stops. I mean Cohen is not a total idiot. We would not have hired Leach if the air raid scheme had significantly ramped down in effectiveness during Leach's last few years at WSU. Another of our problems is offensive penalties. We are averaging just over 400 yards/game so far but that is against the backdrop of around 80-90 penalty yards per game with a bunch of holding calls. Factor that in and we are really gaining no more than around 350 yards per game. That ain't gonna cut it.
    Last edited by maroonmania; 09-22-2021 at 09:22 AM.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    Exactly, in 3 games this year against non-SEC defenses, we have averaged 100 yards and 8.5 points less per game than the WSU offense did for the entire season in 2019 (Leach's final year there). After we play the next 3 games (LSU, TA&M and Bama) that disparity is going to get much worse. Now PAC 12 defenses aren't great but most are every big as good or better than average CUSA and AAC defenses. So the problem has nothing to do with the scheme not working against SEC defenses. Problem is that our offense is just not executing the scheme the same way or at the same level it has under Leach at his other stops. I mean Cohen is not a total idiot. We would not have hired Leach if the air raid scheme had significantly ramped down in effectiveness during Leach's last few years at WSU. Another of our problems is offensive penalties. We are averaging just over 400 yards/game so far but that is against the backdrop of around 80-90 penalty yards per game with a bunch of holding calls. Factor that in and we are really gaining no more than around 350 yards per game. That ain't gonna cut it.
    We should have a little wiggle room playing a shitastic Memphis defense though. If your scheme doesn't work unless it is ran really close to perfection then it probably won't work when SEC defenses increase the speed that you have to operate your offense. That was Moorhead's whole problem. When he had time to operate, his offense was putting up 500-600 yards of offense and 50-60 points. When the QB had 1-2 seconds less to make his decision, then we were putting up 200 yards and 15-20 points.

    This seems like the exact same issue only Leach requires even more precision of his offense. I don't know the answer because Rogers had plenty of time last week and the Oline blocked pretty well and we still sucked on offense. We didn't have a ton of dropped balls either. So it is either the QB just doesn't understand where to go, is afraid to throw it, or the windows just aren't there and it is forcing him to check down every 17ing time. The windows are only going to get smaller so hopefully it is one of the other issues or this is going to be a loooooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg year.

  10. #90
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    We should have a little wiggle room playing a shitastic Memphis defense though. If your scheme doesn't work unless it is ran really close to perfection then it probably won't work when SEC defenses increase the speed that you have to operate your offense. That was Moorhead's whole problem. When he had time to operate, his offense was putting up 500-600 yards of offense and 50-60 points. When the QB had 1-2 seconds less to make his decision, then we were putting up 200 yards and 15-20 points.

    This seems like the exact same issue only Leach requires even more precision of his offense. I don't know the answer because Rogers had plenty of time last week and the Oline blocked pretty well and we still sucked on offense. We didn't have a ton of dropped balls either. So it is either the QB just doesn't understand where to go, is afraid to throw it, or the windows just aren't there and it is forcing him to check down every 17ing time. The windows are only going to get smaller so hopefully it is one of the other issues or this is going to be a loooooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg year.
    I can't tell you precision this or precision that. All I know is that in Leach's past stops, his offenses would have put up 40+ points against a defense like Memphis in its sleep. Now his defense might have given up 50 but scoring would not have been a problem. I can't give you all the reasons for what the big differences are but our OL play right now is subpar and Leach normally doesn't play a QB as young as Rogers is but we really have no choice.

  11. #91
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    You guys remember the spring game and how Abraham seemed to push the ball downfield more than Will?

    Will had better stats but Jack looked to run the offense better on the eye test. Leach puts a lot of the calls and reads on the QB. I?d guess we probably put more responsibility on the QB than just about any other P5 program.

    For example OM seems to be a one or maybe two read program. The play call determines where the call is going the vast majority of the time.

    Our qbs have much more freedom to audible, etc. when we hired him there were a ton of articles posted talking about Leach and QBs and how the QB had all the responsibility. Leach just wants them to trust their eyes.

    It would be interesting to hear right now what % of the time we feel we are making the ?best? throw choice on any given play. That tells you if the offense is working or not. If the film is showing that we are actually doing that a lot then the scheme had a problem to fix. If the film shows we are constantly missing open guys for more yardage then it?s a qb eye problem.

  12. #92
    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irondawg View Post
    You guys remember the spring game and how Abraham seemed to push the ball downfield more than Will?

    Will had better stats but Jack looked to run the offense better on the eye test. Leach puts a lot of the calls and reads on the QB. I?d guess we probably put more responsibility on the QB than just about any other P5 program.

    For example OM seems to be a one or maybe two read program. The play call determines where the call is going the vast majority of the time.

    Our qbs have much more freedom to audible, etc. when we hired him there were a ton of articles posted talking about Leach and QBs and how the QB had all the responsibility. Leach just wants them to trust their eyes.

    It would be interesting to hear right now what % of the time we feel we are making the ?best? throw choice on any given play. That tells you if the offense is working or not. If the film is showing that we are actually doing that a lot then the scheme had a problem to fix. If the film shows we are constantly missing open guys for more yardage then it?s a qb eye problem.
    Facts!

  13. #93
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irondawg View Post
    You guys remember the spring game and how Abraham seemed to push the ball downfield more than Will?

    Will had better stats but Jack looked to run the offense better on the eye test. Leach puts a lot of the calls and reads on the QB. I?d guess we probably put more responsibility on the QB than just about any other P5 program.

    For example OM seems to be a one or maybe two read program. The play call determines where the call is going the vast majority of the time.

    Our qbs have much more freedom to audible, etc. when we hired him there were a ton of articles posted talking about Leach and QBs and how the QB had all the responsibility. Leach just wants them to trust their eyes.

    It would be interesting to hear right now what % of the time we feel we are making the ?best? throw choice on any given play. That tells you if the offense is working or not. If the film is showing that we are actually doing that a lot then the scheme had a problem to fix. If the film shows we are constantly missing open guys for more yardage then it?s a qb eye problem.
    Very true. It basically boils down to a QB problem or scheme problem. Rogers can develop but the scheme is what it is. We will see what Rogers 2nd year in the SEC looks like. If we don't see actual progress then it is probably a huge Red Flag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    It is hard to see how anyone can watch our games and come away with any other opinion than we have a major problem at quarterback. There are obviously some relatives or extremely close friends of Wills on here that are taking up for him and I?m sure Will is an excellent person but he is an awful quarterback right now. If he does not start throwing the ball down the field we are going to go 4-8.
    Wanna bet?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    You're either blind or his father. There is no way anyone that watches 10 min of football could make up such bullshit as this. Complete & udder disgraceful talent evaluation here
    Nah. Im the smart guy and you are just blind. I know ball. Especially in MS. Take it for what its worth to you.

    An Udder is on a cow btw Kiper Jr Jr

  16. #96
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB**** View Post
    Nah. Im the smart guy and you are just blind. I know ball. Especially in MS. Take it for what its worth to you.

    An Udder is on a cow btw Kiper Jr Jr
    Love the udder catch, now that's funny!

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe View Post
    We should have a little wiggle room playing a shitastic Memphis defense though. If your scheme doesn't work unless it is ran really close to perfection then it probably won't work when SEC defenses increase the speed that you have to operate your offense. That was Moorhead's whole problem. When he had time to operate, his offense was putting up 500-600 yards of offense and 50-60 points. When the QB had 1-2 seconds less to make his decision, then we were putting up 200 yards and 15-20 points.

    This seems like the exact same issue only Leach requires even more precision of his offense. I don't know the answer because Rogers had plenty of time last week and the Oline blocked pretty well and we still sucked on offense. We didn't have a ton of dropped balls either. So it is either the QB just doesn't understand where to go, is afraid to throw it, or the windows just aren't there and it is forcing him to check down every 17ing time. The windows are only going to get smaller so hopefully it is one of the other issues or this is going to be a loooooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg year.
    Totally agree.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    I can't tell you precision this or precision that. All I know is that in Leach's past stops, his offenses would have put up 40+ points against a defense like Memphis in its sleep. Now his defense might have given up 50 but scoring would not have been a problem. I can't give you all the reasons for what the big differences are but our OL play right now is subpar and Leach normally doesn't play a QB as young as Rogers is but we really have no choice.
    So we were a little shy of 40, maybe that is the QB piece but we should have scored 60 on Memphis. Ark St. scored 50. This O sucks and is broken. It is a major fixer upper at this point that coat of paint (new QB) ain't gonna fix.

  19. #99
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    Sometimes when one is so convinced of the infallibility of his system that he created, he?s unwilling to acknowledge the fact that in order to work, the system needs a certain parameter from the other party involved. By changing, he would have to admit that it?s not perfect, so if the past is any indicator, he?s not going to do this. It?s easier to blame the execution than to admit it?s the scheme and it?s rigidity.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    75th and 51st in 2012
    24th and 74th in 2013

    We were not as down as Wash State was when Leach took over though.
    We weren't?

    Did WSU have a freshman starting at QB in year 1? DId WSU have mostly Freshmen WR in year 2?

    Just because our record was better they year prior, does not equal us being in better shape for the offense as WSU was.

    But that doesn't fit your "pet name for MSU coach" schick.

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