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Thread: Here is what it comes down to with Leach and the offense

  1. #1
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Here is what it comes down to with Leach and the offense

    His offense is not getting enough explosive plays- period. It is Wishbone 2020. Southern defenses with their speed plus their willingness to play the 3-8 the whole game has really hampered the effectiveness of the offense.

    10+ yardage plays:

    2017 Wash St- 17th in the country
    2018 Wash St- 17th in the country
    2019 Wash St- 6th in the country
    2020 Miss State- 54th in the country
    2021 Miss State- 65th in the country

    20+ yardage plays:

    2017 WS- 40th
    2018 WS- 70th
    2019- Tied 23rd
    2020 State- 68th
    2021 State- 72nd

    We were 13th and 10th in the SEC last year
    We are 12th and 9th this year with more experience and about as good of a WR group as we will ever have at State. We havent started facing the good defenses yet.

    We will not make double digit drives against SEC defenses drive after drive. We have to change something because this isnt working.
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    How do our 2020 numbers in those categories compare to wash st 2012 numbers vs conference opponents? Curious to know if they were as bad as ours in 2020.

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    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    How do our 2020 numbers in those categories compare to wash st 2012 numbers vs conference opponents? Curious to know if they were as bad as ours in 2020.
    75th and 51st in 2012
    24th and 74th in 2013

    We were not as down as Wash State was when Leach took over though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    75th and 51st in 2012
    24th and 74th in 2013

    We were not as down as Wash State was when Leach took over though.
    Interesting.

    As a passing team, we were almost dead last in fbs when he took over. 109th in the country.

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Interesting.

    As a passing team, we were almost dead last in fbs when he took over. 109th in the country.
    We were extremely run heavy in Moorhead's scheme especially when it came to SEC games. Kylin Hill was one of the top RBs in the SEC and Moorhead's passing offense wasn't good against the speed of SEC defenses. It is similar to the problems that Leach is having. His offense just isn't successful since it is basically playing 10 vs 11. Shrader and Hill made our offense go but Shrader was a far better scrambler than he was a passing QB.

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    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Agree.

    Hard to have big plays when you rarely throw the ball beyond a 10-15 yard area though. Not that you can't have explosive plays on short routes, but when a defense only feels they have to defend 15 yards, it makes it extremely difficult to bust one. You also need a QB that has an arm that scares the opponent....we don't. And if not, you need a QB that scares the D with his legs so they have to creep up....we don't.

    All of this being said, it's not working, and Leach has said he has his system and he's not changing it....Sooooo........wtf are we doing?

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    This is what we have bought with our 5 milly a year. We have bought a coach who is married to a system. Adjustments need to be made, but Leach will not look within. He will look to the players and say things like execution. He is not going to change the system that has made him rich and famous. Our next coach needs to be a leader of men, a culture builder, a CEO, not a system guy.

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    We can be successful..
    Leach has to convince Will that it wont be a pick every time you throw it down the field. Its probably tough for Will to trust anything down the field after watch Costello throw it to the wrong team half the year last year.

    Playing not to lose aint the same as playing to win. I'm in the camp of **** it if you throw a pick down the field. We need a unapologetic & confident gunslinger. If will could spice in a little bit of that the world is his oyster.

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    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    The only thing that could save us is if we have Brett Farve.... dude would throw soooooo many picks, but, dang it would be fun to watc him dice up a defense.

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    Senior Member shoeless joe's Avatar
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    It appears that when the chips are down and we HAVE to move the ball in a hurry Rogers is willing to push it down field and has success. This has been the case several time this year. Are we running different plays when this happens? The defenses are still dropping back into coverage so what’s the difference other than Rogers actually throwing the ball down field?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeless joe View Post
    It appears that when the chips are down and we HAVE to move the ball in a hurry Rogers is willing to push it down field and has success. This has been the case several time this year. Are we running different plays when this happens? The defenses are still dropping back into coverage so what’s the difference other than Rogers actually throwing the ball down field?
    I honestly think it is because he doesn't have a choice and trusts his instincts. Needs that from the get go. He's just scared to make a mistake rather than to make a play until he is forced to. Only thing that makes sense to me.

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    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeless joe View Post
    It appears that when the chips are down and we HAVE to move the ball in a hurry Rogers is willing to push it down field and has success. This has been the case several time this year. Are we running different plays when this happens? The defenses are still dropping back into coverage so what’s the difference other than Rogers actually throwing the ball down field?

    That's the difference. Leach gives the QB the ability to read and make a throw. Rodgers is choosing who the ball goes to.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Dawgology's Avatar
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    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by shoeless joe View Post
    It appears that when the chips are down and we HAVE to move the ball in a hurry Rogers is willing to push it down field and has success. This has been the case several time this year. Are we running different plays when this happens? The defenses are still dropping back into coverage so what?s the difference other than Rogers actually throwing the ball down field?
    I've noticed this. He's kind of aggressive until we get up 10-14 points on the opponent and then it's like he becomes ultra-conservative, playing not to lose. And I get it....he's young....we have the lead...he doesn't want to be the reason we lose the lead. Unfortunately, that conservatism leads the offense to going flat and results in no real offensive production. Will doesn't turn it back on until we get down then he slings it everywhere because he has nothing to lose at that point. He needs to understand that he has to play that way from the first snap to the last.

    He can't just play for good stats he needs to play to win for all 4 quarters.

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    The bigger the arm, the smaller the window can be.

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    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeless joe View Post
    It appears that when the chips are down and we HAVE to move the ball in a hurry Rogers is willing to push it down field and has success. This has been the case several time this year. Are we running different plays when this happens? The defenses are still dropping back into coverage so what’s the difference other than Rogers actually throwing the ball down field?
    On the TD we threw in the 4th Q on the post- for some crazy reason the safety to that side jumped the deep out and vacated the middle of the field. Was an easy read and throw. It doesnt look like on TV we are running many post routes during the game like we did then.
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    On the TD we threw in the 4th Q on the post- for some crazy reason the safety to that side jumped the deep out and vacated the middle of the field. Was an easy read and throw. It doesnt look like on TV we are running many post routes during the game like we did then.
    Agree. Most of our route are short crossing routes and curl routes. Not much stretching the field at all. That ain't Will's fault.

    A lot of the open WR people see are guys drifting on the backside after the D reacts to a short throw. It looks wide open when you see the play wind up.

  17. #17
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    His offense is not getting enough explosive plays- period. It is Wishbone 2020. Southern defenses with their speed plus their willingness to play the 3-8 the whole game has really hampered the effectiveness of the offense.

    10+ yardage plays:

    2017 Wash St- 17th in the country
    2018 Wash St- 17th in the country
    2019 Wash St- 6th in the country
    2020 Miss State- 54th in the country
    2021 Miss State- 65th in the country

    20+ yardage plays:

    2017 WS- 40th
    2018 WS- 70th
    2019- Tied 23rd
    2020 State- 68th
    2021 State- 72nd

    We were 13th and 10th in the SEC last year
    We are 12th and 9th this year with more experience and about as good of a WR group as we will ever have at State. We havent started facing the good defenses yet.

    We will not make double digit drives against SEC defenses drive after drive. We have to change something because this isnt working.
    This is correct and almost 100% due to a lack of mobility and/or arm strength by the QB. Leach has always had more talented QBs than this

  18. #18
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    Agree.

    Hard to have big plays when you rarely throw the ball beyond a 10-15 yard area though. Not that you can't have explosive plays on short routes, but when a defense only feels they have to defend 15 yards, it makes it extremely difficult to bust one. You also need a QB that has an arm that scares the opponent....we don't. And if not, you need a QB that scares the D with his legs so they have to creep up....we don't.

    All of this being said, it's not working, and Leach has said he has his system and he's not changing it....Sooooo........wtf are we doing?
    There is no offense on Earth that will work at a high rate at the D1 level with this QB

  19. #19
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaDawgs View Post
    I honestly think it is because he doesn't have a choice and trusts his instincts. Needs that from the get go. He's just scared to make a mistake rather than to make a play until he is forced to. Only thing that makes sense to me.
    Agree. At times, due to being a coach?s kid, I wonder if he?s been over coached

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    This is correct and almost 100% due to a lack of mobility and/or arm strength by the QB. Leach has always had more talented QBs than this
    So you don't believe I'm recruiting rankings on an individualized level?

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