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Thread: Honest question for Leach supporters

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
    Seems to me like the purpose of this thread is to attack the Leach supporters. Shifty!
    Not at all. Hoping a Leach supporter will bring something new or hopeful about what Leach may do to fix it but nobody has got nothing. Same as after the spring game. Lot of BS after spring game. I told yall same song, different verse. I'm ready for Leach to sing a different note and get our program going the right direction.

    I ain't anti Leach - I'm pro MSU.

    Hoping someone will say I talked to a coach or player and they said Leach is going to change X or Y going forward. Anything, something to have some hope.

    Some of the stuff some are hanging on to is blind faith because he won 20 years ago.

  2. #22
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    I will tell you. We can't keep turning on coaches 2-3 years in a system. Especially when fans want totally different philosophical changes from the previous coach. This team does have fight in them that should be seen. I want to see the rest of the year less O-Line mistakes or a change needs to happen there and continue with increase in points per game. No blowouts be in the game till the last possession.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
    I still support him. Seeing that we have left at least 21-28 points a game on the field, from mistakes, misfires, etc.
    By end of the year if it is still the same then it is time to reconsider.
    His teams improve through the season, so I am curious to see if even half of those points start dropping in for us.
    I want to buy into what you are drinking, but, my issues now are the fact that we are three games into this season and we CANNOT stop with pre-snap penalties. That is not something that well coached teams do. It has been three straight games of that mess. i want to believe that he can write the ship, but, he has a TON of proving to do. He can do that this weekend at home.

  4. #24
    Senior Member thf24's Avatar
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    I wouldn't call myself a "supporter," but I'm still seeing enough not to write him off mid-season. I'd be lying though if I said I'm not starting to wish we could just wake up tomorrow and have a modern spread option offense again like the one that was so good for us for most of nine seasons.

  5. #25
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    We are still miles ahead of what Moorhead left. We had legit effort problems under Moorhead. Leach will have none of those

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB**** View Post
    We are still miles ahead of what Moorhead left. We had legit effort problems under Moorhead. Leach will have none of those
    Objectively, this is obviously a very good thing. For some reason I just can?t bring myself to care though, if the W/L column stays the same. I don?t know hopefully it pays off, but it feels like most coaches who are brought in the clean up a program are simultaneously horrible. See Croom

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    Not at all. Hoping a Leach supporter will bring something new or hopeful about what Leach may do to fix it but nobody has got nothing. Same as after the spring game. Lot of BS after spring game. I told yall same song, different verse. I'm ready for Leach to sing a different note and get our program going the right direction.

    I ain't anti Leach - I'm pro MSU.

    Hoping someone will say I talked to a coach or player and they said Leach is going to change X or Y going forward. Anything, something to have some hope.

    Some of the stuff some are hanging on to is blind faith because he won 20 years ago.
    The problem as I see it R2 is you want Leach to do something different, where as Leach wants to see the team do something different, that being, through practice, play with more precision and with the same concept we play with when we have been down to points. Make plays. I believe that is what Leach and the coaches are trying to teach and want our players to learn to do.

    Many on here have said there are plays, there, to be made down field.

    Is we can learn to do what the coaches are trying to teach, we will look like a totally different team on offense and will be blowing out teams like we have been playing including NC State,
    Last edited by Percho; 09-20-2021 at 01:34 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick91 View Post
    I want to buy into what you are drinking, but, my issues now are the fact that we are three games into this season and we CANNOT stop with pre-snap penalties. That is not something that well coached teams do. It has been three straight games of that mess. i want to believe that he can write the ship, but, he has a TON of proving to do. He can do that this weekend at home.
    I honestly believe those penalties are a result of how slow we get plays in motion. The longer it takes to put a play in motion the more anxious the OL gets. IMHO

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    What is he going to do different to make any of the remaining games any better?

    I'd love to have some hope because I don't want this humiliation for MSU but based on decades of Leach history, he ain't changin.

    Hope you who are ultimate optimist?
    I am still in a wait and see. Looking at Leach's last two stops, Tech and WSU it took 3 years to see any kind of results. I know lots of fans are looking north at Ole Miss and how well their offense is moving in year 2 under kiffin but we are in way different situations. We have brought in a coach that is completely changing the scheme that MSU is known for in RTGDF to the Air raid. I think what is tearing people up inside is seeing how well the offense at Ole Miss is doing when his offense is similar to what these players have been running their whole college career and what they were recruited to come to campus to do. If we dont see any progress by year 3 then by all means fire the man. You can't fire him until we at least get to the point where he is known to make a difference
    Last edited by dawgman15; 09-20-2021 at 02:13 PM.

  10. #30
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    I am a supporter.

    That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

    But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

    There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Catfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rock View Post
    I am a supporter.

    That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

    But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

    There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.
    Good post!

  12. #32
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    I am still in a wait and see. Looking at Leach's last two stops, Tech and WSU it took 3 years to see any kind of results. I know lots of fans are looking north at Ole Miss and how well their offense is moving in year 2 under kiffin but we are in way different situations. We have brought in a coach that is completely changing the scheme that MSU is known for in RTGDF to the Air raid. I think what is tearing people up inside is seeing how well the offense at Ole Miss is doing when this offense is similar to what these players have been running their whole college career and what they were recruited to come to campus to do. If we dont see any progress by year 3 then by all means fire the man. You can't fire him until we at least get to the point where he is known to make a difference
    LK is running an offense no different than what Freeze and Longo were doing. OM was ready made with those players. There was zero adjustment. And Matt Corral's like 27 years old with three kids, two divorces and a mortgage.**

    But I'm with you. If the offense is just as bad next year it's time to push Leach to step down and retire to Key West. Year three should be golden in this offense.

  13. #33
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rock View Post
    I am a supporter.

    That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

    But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

    There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.
    We should all be hoping like Hell that Leach wins here. Having Leach a total failure here isn't going to improve how potential head coaches look at us. JoMo then Leach would give us a coaches' graveyard title. It would be tough to get some mediocre retread like Chizik at that point.

  14. #34
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    I had a typo in there TrapGame

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    What is he going to do different to make any of the remaining games any better?

    I'd love to have some hope because I don't want this humiliation for MSU but based on decades of Leach history, he ain't changin.

    Hope you who are ultimate optimist?
    You don't change anything. Keep plodding and trying to improve in the system. Cut down on all the dead ball penalties, take 3 points when given to you, and make your extra points. That would have given you 34 points at Memphis against a team that was geeked up to play you, which is where this offense is right now.

  16. #36
    Senior Member TheLostDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rock View Post
    I am a supporter.

    That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

    But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

    There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.
    Yeah we have to give him three years and if it's still looking this bad and there isn't a good candidate available then get Spurrier to do what Matt Luke did and be interim coach for year along with increasing the pay to the other coaches to keep them on the staff(the ones we want to keep, let others go).

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    I've basically idolized the man for 15+ years, so it's going to get really hard for me if this goes South. But we've got to reduce the 1-yard dumpoffs to the RBs and throw downfield more, even if we have a few INTs.

    The screwjob from yesterday is such a season-killer, because instead of looking ahead to our matchup with LSU and our chance to get into the top 25, we're wondering whether we're going to make a bowl.
    I agree completely. I wanted him hired when we hired croom
    Romans 5:8

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rock View Post
    I am a supporter.

    That's the problem with this offense. When you do it badly, which is where we are now, it stops itself. You have tons of people that coached the game say it can't be done. Why? They know they could not coach it to work because it depends on such perfect execution that they do not believe that level of execution is possible. It is, Leach has proven it at the P5 level, certainly a higher level than Memphis. They call it a shit offense because it's dang hard run consistently and that's why we are struggling now. It's simple to understand but hard to execute consistently.

    But when it works and I still say it can work, it's dang hard to stop no matter how good you are defensively. I still think Leach can take us to a place we have never been if he can get that offense working. I cannot say when I will give it up but it won't be today. Am I happy? Hell no, but there is this:

    There is not a single coach worth his shit would come here if we fired our 2nd head coach in 4 years. Not one. You better hope he gets it together or we give him a legit shot to get this right or the next hire will be worse. Coaches get one shot at the big time, they won't waste it on a place that fires it's coach after not getting a legit shot to win.
    Rep given! Well said.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by vv83 View Post
    Objectively, this is obviously a very good thing. For some reason I just can?t bring myself to care though, if the W/L column stays the same. I don?t know hopefully it pays off, but it feels like most coaches who are brought in the clean up a program are simultaneously horrible. See Croom
    Its also "objectively" impossible to quantify. Its like the old argument that the new strength and conditioning coach is way better than the previous one. I mean has anyone ever hired a strength and conditioning coach and reporters or insiders ever say "This guy is not as good as the last guy." That freaking never happens.

    Its like when people said Kylin Hill was a cancer last year. He wasn't a cancer when he torching LSU in the first game of the season. Once he opted out or wasn't thrilled with the offense we were running, all of a sudden he was a problem.

    You know how I quantify effort? W's and L's. So far under Leach we are 6-8.

    When we can't convert 4th and 2 or 3rd and 1 I don't see a lack of effort when we are running one of about 3 short yardage plays we have. That is not effort, that is gameplanning and scheme.

    For those of us that are concerned about Leach, the problem I have is that he refuses to incorporate a running element against the 3-8 defense. We have punted the ball 17 times in 3 games against Memphis, La Tech, and NC State. Those are not elite defenses. This doesn't count drives that have ended in turnovers. The bigger problem is that these are not unexpected issues. Go back and look at what was being said about Leach when we hired him. Those of us that had concerns, had exactly these concerns.

    It would be as if your friends told you that marrying a stripper isn't the best idea and you go ahead and marry the stripper. I mean, the photos on Instagram are great and maybe for a while its kind of cool, but eventually - you are married to a stripper and every problem that your friends said would be a problem - are in fact, a problem.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    OK, that is basically the dream formula for every team in America. Realistically, what will he do? What is Leach going to do to put players in position to make those 4-5 winning plays but suck the rest?

    The reason teams make those 4-5 winning plays is because they have 40-50 possible winning plays a game. We don't. Completing 30 passes a game for 2 yards ain't winning plays.
    What do you think he did the previous roughly 12 seasons where he had his teams ready to beat teams like Memphis (well really, even in some of those, he would have an inexplicable loss but make up for it with an upset)?

    I don't know why this team can't seem to run his offense. I'm skeptical that we're ever going to beat elite defenses with it, but we sure as shit should be able to run it well enough to beat Memphis. I am still hopeful that we will be similar to Dan every year but 2014. A good enough offense that lets us when games with defense and be 6-6 to 8-4 most years.
    Last edited by Johnson85; 09-20-2021 at 05:37 PM.

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