-
09-14-2021, 01:28 PM
#101
Originally Posted by
Commercecomet24
Lol yeah Henig, I swear that guy actually tried to throw the ball through defenders a couple of times. I think Chuck and pray was his motto.
I definitely prayed a lot when he was at QB.
-
09-14-2021, 01:31 PM
#102
Originally Posted by
Commercecomet24
Lol yeah Henig, I swear that guy actually tried to throw the ball through defenders a couple of times. I think Chuck and pray was his motto.
That was about the only way in the Croom offense
I think Henig had a good arm. With average coaching, I think he could've been decent
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
-
09-14-2021, 01:36 PM
#103
Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
That was about the only way in the Croom offense
I think Henig had a good arm. With average coaching, I think he could've been decent
Henig had an extremely strong arm and you're right Crooms offense was horrid
-
09-14-2021, 01:49 PM
#104
Originally Posted by
HancockCountyDog
My two cents.
I don't like the offense we are running. I think the scheme is the problem, not Will. If we are going to run this offense, Will is perfectly capable of thriving in this offense.
The reason he is having to dump the ball off is because teams have schemed the hell out of this offense. They have tons of film on this offense, and its the same shit every week. Our big plays are either plays where Will scrambles out of the pocket and a defender comes up and gets out of their pre-designated zone and then someone is open or a DC attempts to blitz and we simply can get that ball off.
Will is doing exactly what he is being asked to do in this offense. If his arm was stronger, the WR's wouldn't be more open. LEach's offense has rarely stretched the field vertically. Its not that type of offense. Its not a coincidence that we keep having to punt 6-7 times a game, regardless of who is playing defense. LT, bears, NC State - we always end up punting 6-7 times a game.
Its very easy to blame Will, but a stronger armed QB is not the solution. Hell, KJ had a stronger arm, and that didn't do us any favors last year.
Its the offense, not the QB.
That was true last year, but it doesn't sound like you're watching the same games as most of the rest of us this season. We've had guys running wide open all over the field through these first two games that Will just isn't finding consistently enough. Whether the issue is talent or just lack of experience (I'm rooting for the latter), our bottleneck right now is largely QB play. A lot of it could go on the OL in pass pro the first week too, not so much the second.
-
09-14-2021, 01:58 PM
#105
Originally Posted by
Coach34
I think it's a combination of 2 things:
1. Rogers is an adequate, very football smart game manager.
2. This offense will limit anyone to a degree. In the Big 12 and Pac-12 they had guys breaking away for big plays- that happens alot less in the SEC. Teams are playing soft pass D and then running downhill and blowing people up. The defensive philosophy against Leach has changed over the years. We cant usually throw quick because of the coverages against us. So everything has to develop. It's really hard to throw against 7 and 8 players play after play. Rogers almost never gets the luxury of going only against 6 in the Secondary as most QB's get often vs a 4 man front and 1 blitzer.
I dug into #2 a little to see what accuracy there is to the idea that the SEC gives up fewer big plays than others. I only looked at 2019 - since that was the last full season and included everyone playing similar schedules. I looked at the Top 16 defenses for fewest 20+ yard pass plays given up; and I looked at the Top 16 Offenses for most 20+ yard pass plays gained. I chose Top 16 because that is 25% of the total number of P5 programs.
Top 16 Defenses for fewest 20+ yard pass plays given up broke down to: B1G (6), G5 (3), SEC (3), Indys (1 - ND) ACC,PAC 12 & B12 (1 each): So B1G had the stingiest defenses in terms of pass plays given up.
Top1 16 Offenses for most 20+ yard pass plays completed broke down to: G5 (7), ACC, B1G & SEC (2 each); Indys (1 - ND), and B12 & P12 (1 each): So G5's threw the most for long gains.
So, I'd say that B1G defends against long passes better than any conference - as they have the fewest big plays given up AND the 2nd fewest big pass plays completed amongst the top 16.2 However, with their run-heavy offenses, the numbers may be skewed.
I'd also say that the P12 and B12 are worse then the SEC - but not by a huge amount.
"After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
- Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18
-
09-14-2021, 02:10 PM
#106
Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
I dug into #2 a little to see what accuracy there is to the idea that the SEC gives up fewer big plays than others. I only looked at 2019 - since that was the last full season and included everyone playing similar schedules. I looked at the Top 16 defenses for fewest 20+ yard pass plays given up; and I looked at the Top 16 Offenses for most 20+ yard pass plays gained. I chose Top 16 because that is 25% of the total number of P5 programs.
Top 16 Defenses for fewest 20+ yard pass plays given up broke down to: B1G (6), G5 (3), SEC (3), Indys (1 - ND) ACC,PAC 12 & B12 (1 each): So B1G had the stingiest defenses in terms of pass plays given up.
Top1 16 Offenses for most 20+ yard pass plays completed broke down to: G5 (7), ACC, B1G & SEC (2 each); Indys (1 - ND), and B12 & P12 (1 each): So G5's threw the most for long gains.
So, I'd say that B1G defends against long passes better than any conference - as they have the fewest big plays given up AND the 2nd fewest big pass plays completed amongst the top 16.2 However, with their run-heavy offenses, the numbers may be skewed.
I'd also say that the P12 and B12 are worse then the SEC - but not by a huge amount.
I was talking Drop 8 vs Leach's Wishbone2020 offense. Check 20 plus pass plays at Wazzu vs here at State
Normally the SEC will play in your ass M2M- which will allow for some big plays
Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is
-
09-14-2021, 02:42 PM
#107
Originally Posted by
TaleofTwoDogs
I agree. I think Will has the physical skills to do the job but seems to be restricted mentally from preforming as an above average SEC QB. By this, I don't mean a Wonderlic score but the mental confidence to get the job done on a high level. I'm curious to know if last year's high turnover rate at the QB position made him overly conservative with his approach to the position. Playing not to lose. Does he have the "deer in headlights" outlook in his head?
solid question, only time will tell. If so, hopefully that gets corrected soon.
-
09-14-2021, 03:17 PM
#108
Originally Posted by
HancockCountyDog
My two cents.
I don't like the offense we are running. I think the scheme is the problem, not Will. If we are going to run this offense, Will is perfectly capable of thriving in this offense.
The reason he is having to dump the ball off is because teams have schemed the hell out of this offense. They have tons of film on this offense, and its the same shit every week. Our big plays are either plays where Will scrambles out of the pocket and a defender comes up and gets out of their pre-designated zone and then someone is open or a DC attempts to blitz and we simply can get that ball off.
Will is doing exactly what he is being asked to do in this offense. If his arm was stronger, the WR's wouldn't be more open. LEach's offense has rarely stretched the field vertically. Its not that type of offense. Its not a coincidence that we keep having to punt 6-7 times a game, regardless of who is playing defense. LT, bears, NC State - we always end up punting 6-7 times a game.
Its very easy to blame Will, but a stronger armed QB is not the solution. Hell, KJ had a stronger arm, and that didn't do us any favors last year.
Its the offense, not the QB.
Bingo. The "Air raid" is a one dimensional, short passing offense.
These guys want to blame the QB because you can replace a Qb mid game. Quick fix. Where as admitting it is the scheme... well that isn't an over night fix.
Flame on. Leach will win some here. However if you think a new QB will be throwing bombs and putting up 50pts ppg.... that just isn't happening with this offense.
Last edited by Maroonthirteen; 09-14-2021 at 03:22 PM.
-
09-14-2021, 03:21 PM
#109
Originally Posted by
Maroonthirteen
Bingo. The "Air raid" is a one demential, short passing offense.
These guys want to blame the QB because you can replace a Qb mid game. Quick fix. Where as admitting it is the scheme... well that isn't an over night fix.
Flame on. Leach will win some here. However if you think a new QB will be throwing bombs and putting up 50pts ppg.... that just isn't happening with this offense.
What offense in the Power 5 has been good with a Rogers level QB?
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
-
09-14-2021, 03:25 PM
#110
Mac Jones won a national championship? Are you going to tell me he is extremely athletic with the strongest arm on the planet?
-
09-14-2021, 03:26 PM
#111
Originally Posted by
Maroonthirteen
Bingo. The "Air raid" is a one dimensional, short passing offense.
These guys want to blame the QB because you can replace a Qb mid game. Quick fix. Where as admitting it is the scheme... well that isn't an over night fix.
Flame on. Leach will win some here. However if you think a new QB will be throwing bombs and putting up 50pts ppg.... that just isn't happening with this offense.
Yep nailed it 13.
KJ was a good QB until he ran air raid with drop 8 in the SEC. If you say he wasn't go read the threads before the season and after LSU game. Gun, you are funny.
-
09-14-2021, 03:36 PM
#112
2018 Gardner Minshew was #1 in pass attempts and completions by approximately 100 passes in each. However he was #2 in yards passing with over 100 more completions than the 1st place guy. Also his yards per attempt were not in the top 20 of QBs that year.
-
09-14-2021, 03:41 PM
#113
Originally Posted by
dawgman15
Mac Jones won a national championship? Are you going to tell me he is extremely athletic with the strongest arm on the planet?
Mac Jones was a 1st rounder, and the current starting qb in New England. You really wanna make this comparison?
-
09-14-2021, 03:43 PM
#114
Originally Posted by
dawgman15
Mac Jones won a national championship? Are you going to tell me he is extremely athletic with the strongest arm on the planet?
Strongest arm on the planet? Kind of a ridiculous statement there by you.
As to your question, I don't think Mac is a great talent, but he does have better tools than Will across the board. Bigger, stronger, faster, better arm, & quicker release
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
-
09-14-2021, 03:44 PM
#115
Originally Posted by
R2Dawg
Yep nailed it 13.
KJ was a good QB until he ran air raid with drop 8 in the SEC. If you say he wasn't go read the threads before the season and after LSU game. Gun, you are funny.
Comparing a QB in the air raid to one in David Shaw's offense is about like comparing mowing the yard to playing Tennis
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
-
09-14-2021, 03:50 PM
#116
Originally Posted by
msstate7
Mac Jones was a 1st rounder, and the current starting qb in New England. You really wanna make this comparison?
I do want to make the comparison, as far as physical tools they are very similar
-
09-14-2021, 03:52 PM
#117
Without a doubt, the dumbest 6 page thread in history!
-
09-14-2021, 03:55 PM
#118
Originally Posted by
dawgman15
as far as physical tools they are very similar
No they aren't similar. There isn't one tool that Rogers has that is equal to or better than Mac & I'm not even a big Mac fan
CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG
Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More
-
09-14-2021, 04:00 PM
#119
Originally Posted by
Percho
Without a doubt, the dumbest 6 page thread in history!
It's a slow midweek day on ED, lol.
-
09-14-2021, 04:07 PM
#120
Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
No they aren't similar. There isn't one tool that Rogers has that is equal to or better than Mac & I'm not even a big Mac fan
That's your eye not mine? See how that works, your opinion doesn't mean jack shit
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules
Disclaimer: Elitedawgs is a privately owned and operated forum that is managed by alumni of Mississippi State University. This website is in no way affiliated with the Mississippi State University, The Southeastern Conference (SEC) or the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). The views and opinions expressed herein are strictly those of the post author and may not reflect the views of other members of this forum or elitedawgs.com. The interactive nature of the elitedawgs.com forums makes it impossible for elitedawgs.com to assume responsibility for any of the content posted at this site. Ideas, thoughts, suggestion, comments, opinions, advice and observations made by participants at elitedawgs.com are not endorsed by elitedawgs.com
Elitedawgs: A Mississippi State Fan Forum, Mississippi State Football, Mississippi State Basketball, Mississippi State Baseball, Mississippi State Athletics. Mississippi State message board.