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Thread: College Offensive Success is 70%+ About QB Play

  1. #101
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Lol yeah Henig, I swear that guy actually tried to throw the ball through defenders a couple of times. I think Chuck and pray was his motto.
    I definitely prayed a lot when he was at QB.

  2. #102
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Lol yeah Henig, I swear that guy actually tried to throw the ball through defenders a couple of times. I think Chuck and pray was his motto.
    That was about the only way in the Croom offense

    I think Henig had a good arm. With average coaching, I think he could've been decent
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  3. #103
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    That was about the only way in the Croom offense

    I think Henig had a good arm. With average coaching, I think he could've been decent
    Henig had an extremely strong arm and you're right Crooms offense was horrid

  4. #104
    Senior Member thf24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog View Post
    My two cents.

    I don't like the offense we are running. I think the scheme is the problem, not Will. If we are going to run this offense, Will is perfectly capable of thriving in this offense.

    The reason he is having to dump the ball off is because teams have schemed the hell out of this offense. They have tons of film on this offense, and its the same shit every week. Our big plays are either plays where Will scrambles out of the pocket and a defender comes up and gets out of their pre-designated zone and then someone is open or a DC attempts to blitz and we simply can get that ball off.

    Will is doing exactly what he is being asked to do in this offense. If his arm was stronger, the WR's wouldn't be more open. LEach's offense has rarely stretched the field vertically. Its not that type of offense. Its not a coincidence that we keep having to punt 6-7 times a game, regardless of who is playing defense. LT, bears, NC State - we always end up punting 6-7 times a game.

    Its very easy to blame Will, but a stronger armed QB is not the solution. Hell, KJ had a stronger arm, and that didn't do us any favors last year.

    Its the offense, not the QB.
    That was true last year, but it doesn't sound like you're watching the same games as most of the rest of us this season. We've had guys running wide open all over the field through these first two games that Will just isn't finding consistently enough. Whether the issue is talent or just lack of experience (I'm rooting for the latter), our bottleneck right now is largely QB play. A lot of it could go on the OL in pass pro the first week too, not so much the second.

  5. #105
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I think it's a combination of 2 things:

    1. Rogers is an adequate, very football smart game manager.

    2. This offense will limit anyone to a degree. In the Big 12 and Pac-12 they had guys breaking away for big plays- that happens alot less in the SEC. Teams are playing soft pass D and then running downhill and blowing people up. The defensive philosophy against Leach has changed over the years. We cant usually throw quick because of the coverages against us. So everything has to develop. It's really hard to throw against 7 and 8 players play after play. Rogers almost never gets the luxury of going only against 6 in the Secondary as most QB's get often vs a 4 man front and 1 blitzer.
    I dug into #2 a little to see what accuracy there is to the idea that the SEC gives up fewer big plays than others. I only looked at 2019 - since that was the last full season and included everyone playing similar schedules. I looked at the Top 16 defenses for fewest 20+ yard pass plays given up; and I looked at the Top 16 Offenses for most 20+ yard pass plays gained. I chose Top 16 because that is 25% of the total number of P5 programs.

    Top 16 Defenses for fewest 20+ yard pass plays given up broke down to: B1G (6), G5 (3), SEC (3), Indys (1 - ND) ACC,PAC 12 & B12 (1 each): So B1G had the stingiest defenses in terms of pass plays given up.
    Top1 16 Offenses for most 20+ yard pass plays completed broke down to: G5 (7), ACC, B1G & SEC (2 each); Indys (1 - ND), and B12 & P12 (1 each): So G5's threw the most for long gains.

    So, I'd say that B1G defends against long passes better than any conference - as they have the fewest big plays given up AND the 2nd fewest big pass plays completed amongst the top 16.2 However, with their run-heavy offenses, the numbers may be skewed.
    I'd also say that the P12 and B12 are worse then the SEC - but not by a huge amount.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I dug into #2 a little to see what accuracy there is to the idea that the SEC gives up fewer big plays than others. I only looked at 2019 - since that was the last full season and included everyone playing similar schedules. I looked at the Top 16 defenses for fewest 20+ yard pass plays given up; and I looked at the Top 16 Offenses for most 20+ yard pass plays gained. I chose Top 16 because that is 25% of the total number of P5 programs.

    Top 16 Defenses for fewest 20+ yard pass plays given up broke down to: B1G (6), G5 (3), SEC (3), Indys (1 - ND) ACC,PAC 12 & B12 (1 each): So B1G had the stingiest defenses in terms of pass plays given up.
    Top1 16 Offenses for most 20+ yard pass plays completed broke down to: G5 (7), ACC, B1G & SEC (2 each); Indys (1 - ND), and B12 & P12 (1 each): So G5's threw the most for long gains.

    So, I'd say that B1G defends against long passes better than any conference - as they have the fewest big plays given up AND the 2nd fewest big pass plays completed amongst the top 16.2 However, with their run-heavy offenses, the numbers may be skewed.
    I'd also say that the P12 and B12 are worse then the SEC - but not by a huge amount.
    I was talking Drop 8 vs Leach's Wishbone2020 offense. Check 20 plus pass plays at Wazzu vs here at State

    Normally the SEC will play in your ass M2M- which will allow for some big plays
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaleofTwoDogs View Post
    I agree. I think Will has the physical skills to do the job but seems to be restricted mentally from preforming as an above average SEC QB. By this, I don't mean a Wonderlic score but the mental confidence to get the job done on a high level. I'm curious to know if last year's high turnover rate at the QB position made him overly conservative with his approach to the position. Playing not to lose. Does he have the "deer in headlights" outlook in his head?
    solid question, only time will tell. If so, hopefully that gets corrected soon.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog View Post
    My two cents.

    I don't like the offense we are running. I think the scheme is the problem, not Will. If we are going to run this offense, Will is perfectly capable of thriving in this offense.

    The reason he is having to dump the ball off is because teams have schemed the hell out of this offense. They have tons of film on this offense, and its the same shit every week. Our big plays are either plays where Will scrambles out of the pocket and a defender comes up and gets out of their pre-designated zone and then someone is open or a DC attempts to blitz and we simply can get that ball off.

    Will is doing exactly what he is being asked to do in this offense. If his arm was stronger, the WR's wouldn't be more open. LEach's offense has rarely stretched the field vertically. Its not that type of offense. Its not a coincidence that we keep having to punt 6-7 times a game, regardless of who is playing defense. LT, bears, NC State - we always end up punting 6-7 times a game.

    Its very easy to blame Will, but a stronger armed QB is not the solution. Hell, KJ had a stronger arm, and that didn't do us any favors last year.

    Its the offense, not the QB.
    Bingo. The "Air raid" is a one dimensional, short passing offense.

    These guys want to blame the QB because you can replace a Qb mid game. Quick fix. Where as admitting it is the scheme... well that isn't an over night fix.



    Flame on. Leach will win some here. However if you think a new QB will be throwing bombs and putting up 50pts ppg.... that just isn't happening with this offense.
    Last edited by Maroonthirteen; 09-14-2021 at 03:22 PM.

  9. #109
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen View Post
    Bingo. The "Air raid" is a one demential, short passing offense.

    These guys want to blame the QB because you can replace a Qb mid game. Quick fix. Where as admitting it is the scheme... well that isn't an over night fix.



    Flame on. Leach will win some here. However if you think a new QB will be throwing bombs and putting up 50pts ppg.... that just isn't happening with this offense.
    What offense in the Power 5 has been good with a Rogers level QB?
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  10. #110
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    Mac Jones won a national championship? Are you going to tell me he is extremely athletic with the strongest arm on the planet?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen View Post
    Bingo. The "Air raid" is a one dimensional, short passing offense.

    These guys want to blame the QB because you can replace a Qb mid game. Quick fix. Where as admitting it is the scheme... well that isn't an over night fix.



    Flame on. Leach will win some here. However if you think a new QB will be throwing bombs and putting up 50pts ppg.... that just isn't happening with this offense.
    Yep nailed it 13.

    KJ was a good QB until he ran air raid with drop 8 in the SEC. If you say he wasn't go read the threads before the season and after LSU game. Gun, you are funny.

  12. #112
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    2018 Gardner Minshew was #1 in pass attempts and completions by approximately 100 passes in each. However he was #2 in yards passing with over 100 more completions than the 1st place guy. Also his yards per attempt were not in the top 20 of QBs that year.

  13. #113
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    Mac Jones won a national championship? Are you going to tell me he is extremely athletic with the strongest arm on the planet?
    Mac Jones was a 1st rounder, and the current starting qb in New England. You really wanna make this comparison?

  14. #114
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    Mac Jones won a national championship? Are you going to tell me he is extremely athletic with the strongest arm on the planet?
    Strongest arm on the planet? Kind of a ridiculous statement there by you.

    As to your question, I don't think Mac is a great talent, but he does have better tools than Will across the board. Bigger, stronger, faster, better arm, & quicker release
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  15. #115
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    Yep nailed it 13.

    KJ was a good QB until he ran air raid with drop 8 in the SEC. If you say he wasn't go read the threads before the season and after LSU game. Gun, you are funny.
    Comparing a QB in the air raid to one in David Shaw's offense is about like comparing mowing the yard to playing Tennis
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Mac Jones was a 1st rounder, and the current starting qb in New England. You really wanna make this comparison?
    I do want to make the comparison, as far as physical tools they are very similar

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    Without a doubt, the dumbest 6 page thread in history!

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    as far as physical tools they are very similar
    No they aren't similar. There isn't one tool that Rogers has that is equal to or better than Mac & I'm not even a big Mac fan
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percho View Post
    Without a doubt, the dumbest 6 page thread in history!
    It's a slow midweek day on ED, lol.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    No they aren't similar. There isn't one tool that Rogers has that is equal to or better than Mac & I'm not even a big Mac fan
    That's your eye not mine? See how that works, your opinion doesn't mean jack shit

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