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Thread: College Offensive Success is 70%+ About QB Play

  1. #41
    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Agree. He'll get better but marginally. He's on the floor of the 3rd floor of the building. Perhaps he can get to the ceiling of the 3rd floor or maybe even the floor of the 4th floor of the building. But he can't get to the 6th floor or higher. Not enough physical ingredients.
    hears to hoping you are wrong, or someone else comes in and is the lighting rode we need.

  2. #42
    Senior Member TaleofTwoDogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick91 View Post
    Yeah, but, I don't see this as a physical issue this is more of mental maturity. Having to set your feet and throw in awkward ways, that just comes with more comfort for the game, and knowledge overall.
    I agree. I think Will has the physical skills to do the job but seems to be restricted mentally from preforming as an above average SEC QB. By this, I don't mean a Wonderlic score but the mental confidence to get the job done on a high level. I'm curious to know if last year's high turnover rate at the QB position made him overly conservative with his approach to the position. Playing not to lose. Does he have the "deer in headlights" outlook in his head?

  3. #43
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick91 View Post
    hears to hoping you are wrong, or someone else comes in and is the lighting rode we need.
    Totally agree. I'd rather be wrong & MSU be better than right.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaleofTwoDogs View Post
    I agree. I think Will has the physical skills to do the job but seems to be restricted mentally from preforming as an above average SEC QB.
    It's both, but I lean heavily on him not having the physical skills.

    Again break it down

    Arm strength: Above average, normal, below average

    Speed: Above average, normal, below average

    Athleticism: Above average, normal, below average

    Quickness: Above average, normal, below average

    Accuracy: Above average, normal, below average
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  5. #45
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    I think it's a combination of 2 things:

    1. Rogers is an adequate, very football smart game manager.

    2. This offense will limit anyone to a degree. In the Big 12 and Pac-12 they had guys breaking away for big plays- that happens alot less in the SEC. Teams are playing soft pass D and then running downhill and blowing people up. The defensive philosophy against Leach has changed over the years. We cant usually throw quick because of the coverages against us. So everything has to develop. It's really hard to throw against 7 and 8 players play after play. Rogers almost never gets the luxury of going only against 6 in the Secondary as most QB's get often vs a 4 man front and 1 blitzer.
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  6. #46
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    Did you buddy in the 49ers front office tell you all that?

  7. #47
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I think it's a combination of 2 things:

    1. Rogers is an adequate, very football smart game manager.

    2. This offense will limit anyone to a degree. In the Big 12 and Pac-12 they had guys breaking away for big plays- that happens alot less in the SEC. Teams are playing soft pass D and then running downhill and blowing people up. The defensive philosophy against Leach has changed over the years. We cant usually throw quick because of the coverages against us. So everything has to develop. It's really hard to throw against 7 and 8 players play after play. Rogers almost never gets the luxury of going only against 6 in the Secondary as most QB's get often vs a 4 man front and 1 blitzer.
    - I can settle to agree with your 1st point.
    - However, it's because of point #2 that we need a more dynamic player back there.

    I would ask though, what college offenses are really good at the P5 level with a QB talent like Rogers? Can name a few?
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  8. #48
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    I look at it like this - Will is kind of like Mullen starting out having to play Tyson Lee. Tyson was a great leader, a JUCO All-American, but he wasn't necessarily SEC QB material and wasn't a perfect match to Mullen's system.
    But, Tyson was all we had until Relf could get ready. Will is matched to the system better then Tyson was, but at this point in his career I'm not sure Will is SEC QB material. But, like Tyson, at this point he is the best we've got and 1 of 2 things will need to happen - either A) Will advances or B) someone progresses and beats him out. If A happens great, we win more games. If B happens, great we win more games. If neither happen, it will be a long couple of years.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman15 View Post
    I like how you imply that Will Rogers is untalented. I guess Mike Leach has never had a talented qb when considering none of qbs have ever been known for slinging it down field
    You can't go by ratings with QB. Just too hard to evaluate because so much of it is not physical. I certainly didn't pay enough attention to WSU to know how Rogers compares to them, but it would not surprise me if they all had more arm strength than Rogers even if none of them were big arms. So far, Rogers looks like his arm is below average and his decision making skills are either slightly above or well above average, depending on how you want to account for the fact that he's a true sophomore. I think if Will came into this offense after we had a few years to tool up for it (and especially if he got to redshirt and then sit the bench for a year), he'd be more than adequate for it to be successful. I think as it is, we're still not there and him lacking a lot of zip on his balls is just one more thing that makes it hard for the offense to really be successful, even if he's not the primary problem.

    All that said, he's still doing pretty damn well. QB is such an important position that of course having a better QB would instantly make us better, but he's certainly not playing at a level that deserves a lot of criticism.

  10. #50
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    You need to be able to run the ball when teams drop 8. Ole Miss can. We can't.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Most all of his QBs have been more talented than Will though. There is a threshold of athleticism & arm talent needed to run this offense at the D1 level & Will kind of straddles that threshold.
    He's also the youngest to ever play for leach.
    Examine will in two years and compare him to other leach qb

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Ok. Well you can't talk players then.

    Stats are great but they only tell you what has already happened. Unless you've got some kind of predictive algorithm model, you've got to look at physical ingredients to predict what will happen tomorrow, a month from now, or 2 years from now. You have to look at what the player is physically capable of

    and why would I be biased against Rogers? I want him to succeed as much as anyone outside of him & his parents
    And as a fourth year jr, which is usually on average when a leach qb plays, Rogers will be normal or above average in every category you listed above. The problem is he is having to play as a true freshman and now a covid freshman.
    Last edited by confucius say; 09-14-2021 at 11:25 AM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Critique of will is very personal for some here.
    Nobody minds critique. He is average at best right now.
    But for shotgun to compare him to redshirt juniors and seniors, and to say he cannot get better physically from age 19 to age 22 (ask Matt Wyatt about this, he talked about himself the other day), is intellectually dishonest.

  14. #54
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I look at it like this - Will is kind of like Mullen starting out having to play Tyson Lee. Tyson was a great leader, a JUCO All-American, but he wasn't necessarily SEC QB material and wasn't a perfect match to Mullen's system.
    But, Tyson was all we had until Relf could get ready. Will is matched to the system better then Tyson was, but at this point in his career I'm not sure Will is SEC QB material. But, like Tyson, at this point he is the best we've got and 1 of 2 things will need to happen - either A) Will advances or B) someone progresses and beats him out. If A happens great, we win more games. If B happens, great we win more games. If neither happen, it will be a long couple of years.
    Good post

  15. #55
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Nobody minds critique. He is average at best right now.
    But for shotgun to compare him to redshirt juniors and seniors, and to say he cannot get better physically from age 19 to age 22 (ask Matt Wyatt about this, he talked about himself the other day), is intellectually dishonest.
    I just don't see tools improving. You either have them or you don't. He can certainly process things quicker, which would help. I just think for will to be a really successful sec qb, he'll have to be lifted up by his supporting cast. I'm hoping Sawyer (in time) can lift up those around him like big time qbs do.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    I just don't see tools improving. You either have them or you don't. He can certainly process things quicker, which would help. I just think for will to be a really successful sec qb, he'll have to be lifted up by his supporting cast. I'm hoping Sawyer (in time) can lift up those around him like big time qbs do.
    He's never going to have a huge arm. That's the only tool I can say will never be above average. He will have to make up for that with anticipation and accuracy, like a drew Brees approach.

  17. #57
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I look at it like this - Will is kind of like Mullen starting out having to play Tyson Lee. Tyson was a great leader, a JUCO All-American, but he wasn't necessarily SEC QB material and wasn't a perfect match to Mullen's system.
    But, Tyson was all we had until Relf could get ready. Will is matched to the system better then Tyson was, but at this point in his career I'm not sure Will is SEC QB material. But, like Tyson, at this point he is the best we've got and 1 of 2 things will need to happen - either A) Will advances or B) someone progresses and beats him out. If A happens great, we win more games. If B happens, great we win more games. If neither happen, it will be a long couple of years.
    Great comparison
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  18. #58
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    He's also the youngest to ever play for leach.
    Examine will in two years and compare him to other leach qb
    Personally, I don't think he'll be on the field in two years
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  19. #59
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    And as a fourth year jr, which is usually on average when a leach qb plays, Rogers will be normal or above average in every category you listed above. The problem is he is having to play as a true freshman and now a covid freshman.
    You keep bringing up his age, &, while he should get smarter, that's going to do a whole lot for his physical tools
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  20. #60
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    He's never going to have a huge arm. That's the only tool I can say will never be above average. He will have to make up for that with anticipation and accuracy, like a drew Brees approach.
    I see what you're saying; but at the end of Drew's career, his processor speed was unbelievable, along with his accuracy. Even being superior to probably the whole nfl in those 2 categories, the saints had to execute flawless to drive the ball. It makes it so hard, and again, drew was unbelievably accurate and quick processing. Younger drew could sling the hell out of a ball

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