Kumar Rocker

[BrunswickDawg]

May I add about Rocker and pitch count, why on God's Green Earth didn't he and/or family take control and set a limit? No way do I blame all on Corbin although he obviously is all in for himself as well! Would any of you guys just let things go? College kids are not adults and they are still growing which stress on the body can and does cause problems.

It's still very weird to me that he and the Mets could not make a deal. Who knows if "attitude" played a part.

The Mets wouldn't even make an offer - whatever they saw in the physical must look bad.

[basedog]

The Mets wouldn't even make an offer - whatever they saw in the physical must look bad.

I didn't know that. I thought it was a below the 11th pick offer. Still again some very strange stuff.

[trob115]

I think he made a mistake long term as he is unlikely to play MLB and because he is struggling in Japan he won't be able to get the big contract in MLB for his free agency years.

I disagree. There is no guarantee he gets paid in free agency if he signs for below slot by the Braves. Dude got 5 million more than what he would have had he signed with the Braves. I'd say he'll be okay.

[Johnson85]

The Mets wouldn't even make an offer - whatever they saw in the physical must look bad.

Are you sure about this? I thought they had to offer something like 40% of slot to get a compensatory pick for next year. They didn't just walk away from the pick did they?

ETA: I was wrong. Apparently, since Rocker was selected to participate in pre-draft MRI (and I guess full physical?) and declined, that relieved the Mets of their obligation to offer anything in order to get a compensatory pick next year.

[Homedawg]

The Mets wouldn't even make an offer - whatever they saw in the physical must look bad.

Stand corrected if previous poster is correct and have no reason to believ he made up the info about the combine.

[Dawg_Lover]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports....234519936.html

[Randolph Dupree]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports....234519936.html

So, if I read that correctly, the $6M was contingent on a physical and after the results of said exam the Mets offered him zero bonus, just a minor league salary. If I read that correctly, what could've been in there to make that the situation. Again, MLB has shown repeatedly that they're perfectly willing to take the risk on TJ surgery.

[Johnson85]

So, if I read that correctly, the $6M was contingent on a physical and after the results of said exam the Mets offered him zero bonus, just a minor league salary. If I read that correctly, what could've been in there to make that the situation. Again, MLB has shown repeatedly that they're perfectly willing to take the risk on TJ surgery.

It really is crazy that they offered nothing. You'd think a couple of million would be relatively low risk, high reward play. I wondered if Boras convinced them trying to get him at a discount would be more trouble than it's worth.

[BrunswickDawg]

So, if I read that correctly, the $6M was contingent on a physical and after the results of said exam the Mets offered him zero bonus, just a minor league salary. If I read that correctly, what could've been in there to make that the situation. Again, MLB has shown repeatedly that they're perfectly willing to take the risk on TJ surgery.

It really is crazy that they offered nothing. You'd think a couple of million would be relatively low risk, high reward play. I wondered if Boras convinced them trying to get him at a discount would be more trouble than it's worth.

Meanwhile Boras really parses his words in his statements, saying there is "no significant change" from 2018 to now in his MRIs and no surgery is needed.
This tells me there is healed damage of some kind that must have spooked the Mets.

[Catfish]

I think the overall issue is Boras wanting all or nothing and the Mets said nothing.

[Dawg_Lover]

I think the overall issue is Boras wanting all or nothing and the Mets said nothing.

Even with the speculative elbow and fluctuating velocity issues, might a different agent have at least gotten him into the league with a livable paycheck, rather than nothing?

[Jack Lambert]

Just another reason to hate Vandy's coach.

[Catfish]

Even with the speculative elbow and fluctuating velocity issues, might a different agent have at least gotten him into the league with a livable paycheck, rather than nothing?

Yes

[Todd4State]

I disagree. There is no guarantee he gets paid in free agency if he signs for below slot by the Braves. Dude got 5 million more than what he would have had he signed with the Braves. I'd say he'll be okay.

He set himself for life. If he had gone to the minors and flamed out, he would have been in a good financial situation, but not set for life. Hard to call what he did a mistake. I'd have advised my son to do what he did. He's still keeping the possibility of a huge paycheck, but also guaranteeing himself that he will be taken care of if he fails.

The reason I said it was a mistake is because if he had made it to MLB as a starting pitcher the average annual salary is 5.2 million a year as of 2018. I picked 2018 because that was data from the article I found to check my facts. It could very well be more now. One mistake fans in general make with regards to the draft as far as financials go is ultimately a baseball career isn't about how much you can make as a draft pick. It's about how much you can make over the course of your career. So even if you get a high bonus up front a wise person would choose a smaller bonus with a larger long term pay day over a course of a career. And the best way to do that is to go to college in most cases (assuming a draft bonus below 2 million after taxes) and increase your value through development and then go pro. Going to Japan doesn't increase your odds of making it in MLB.

https://www.sportscasting.com/how-mu...b-player-make/

[Todd4State]

Even with the speculative elbow and fluctuating velocity issues, might a different agent have at least gotten him into the league with a livable paycheck, rather than nothing?

I think Rocker will get into pro baseball and MLB eventually. Even after this. So, while I expect him to get way less than whatever the slot was he will get a good bonus and into pro baseball and ultimately that's a big step to getting that big free agent contract down the road.

[Tbonewannabe]

He set himself for life. If he had gone to the minors and flamed out, he would have been in a good financial situation, but not set for life. Hard to call what he did a mistake. I'd have advised my son to do what he did. He's still keeping the possibility of a huge paycheck, but also guaranteeing himself that he will be taken care of if he fails.

It also helped that his contract in Japan was fully guaranteed.

[Johnson85]

The reason I said it was a mistake is because if he had made it to MLB as a starting pitcher the average annual salary is 5.2 million a year as of 2018. I picked 2018 because that was data from the article I found to check my facts. It could very well be more now. One mistake fans in general make with regards to the draft as far as financials go is ultimately a baseball career isn't about how much you can make as a draft pick. It's about how much you can make over the course of your career. So even if you get a high bonus up front a wise person would choose a smaller bonus with a larger long term pay day over a course of a career. And the best way to do that is to go to college in most cases (assuming a draft bonus below 2 million after taxes) and increase your value through development and then go pro. Going to Japan doesn't increase your odds of making it in MLB.

https://www.sportscasting.com/how-mu...b-player-make/

You are completely ignoring risk. There is a huge difference between making $2M over four or five years and $7M over six years. The first is a nice head start that allows you a lot of flexibility if you flame out. The second is an amount that will let you not work at all if you prefer, or more realistically, work at something you like while bringing in 120k per year from investments, with that amount growing with inflation (and in most cases, your nest egg continuing to grow).

There is a huge difference in quality of life between having $120k in investment income coming versus having $40k come in (assuming you managed to save about half of your $2M signing bonus). While there are certainly always ways to spend more money, you don't get the same huge jump going from $120k to say $360k a year to spend (especially if you are not tied to a high cost of living area).

And that $5.2M is grossly skewed by the highest paid players. And most pitchers aren't going to make it to free agency, so they'll never get that big payday. The average pitcher is going to get one year of pay when they're eligible for arbitration. So even if Stewart had taken the $2M and had an average career, he wouldn't have made anything like $5.2M per year. He'd have made the minimum for three years and then gotten a bump his last year (presumably not a huge one since the average player is going to be out of the pros after that year). Let's say he made the median pitcher salary of $2.8M for that last year. With three years of the median, he'd make around $4.5M plus his signing bonus of $2M would put him at $6.5M. So even if he has an average MLB career for a pitcher, which is a pretty great result, he still could make less than he guaranteed himself with his first contract in Japan. And if he is the type of player that is above average, even for MLB, then presumably he can still make it from Japan and isn't giving up much except for maybe a couple of years of big money.

[ScoobaDawg]

Good luck to him, just glad he ain't coming back.

[Tbonewannabe]

The reason I said it was a mistake is because if he had made it to MLB as a starting pitcher the average annual salary is 5.2 million a year as of 2018. I picked 2018 because that was data from the article I found to check my facts. It could very well be more now. One mistake fans in general make with regards to the draft as far as financials go is ultimately a baseball career isn't about how much you can make as a draft pick. It's about how much you can make over the course of your career. So even if you get a high bonus up front a wise person would choose a smaller bonus with a larger long term pay day over a course of a career. And the best way to do that is to go to college in most cases (assuming a draft bonus below 2 million after taxes) and increase your value through development and then go pro. Going to Japan doesn't increase your odds of making it in MLB.

https://www.sportscasting.com/how-mu...b-player-make/

But that also assumes that he goes through the minors and becomes a starting MLB pitcher prior to his 6 years are up. So if he was rehabbing his first year, then year 2 is in A, year 3 in AA, and year 4 in AAA or combo year. He probably doesn't make it to MLB until year 4-5. Also, the Braves would then do all the bullshit to have a pitcher on his rookie deal so he isn't making the $5.2 Mil until year 6-7 anyway. And that is if he moves up and doesn't have someone get promoted over him. All this is a complete gamble also that he kicks ass and moves up while the Braves are also steadily drafting more pitchers (because it is the Braves).

He made the safer choice, I can't say that I blame him. You never can tell what happens. Could be like Kirk Presley and have some type of injury where you never even get close to MLB.

[BB30]

You are completely ignoring risk. There is a huge difference between making $2M over four or five years and $7M over six years. The first is a nice head start that allows you a lot of flexibility if you flame out. The second is an amount that will let you not work at all if you prefer, or more realistically, work at something you like while bringing in 120k per year from investments, with that amount growing with inflation (and in most cases, your nest egg continuing to grow).

There is a huge difference in quality of life between having $120k in investment income coming versus having $40k come in (assuming you managed to save about half of your $2M signing bonus). While there are certainly always ways to spend more money, you don't get the same huge jump going from $120k to say $360k a year to spend (especially if you are not tied to a high cost of living area).

And that $5.2M is grossly skewed by the highest paid players. And most pitchers aren't going to make it to free agency, so they'll never get that big payday. The average pitcher is going to get one year of pay when they're eligible for arbitration. So even if Stewart had taken the $2M and had an average career, he wouldn't have made anything like $5.2M per year. He'd have made the minimum for three years and then gotten a bump his last year (presumably not a huge one since the average player is going to be out of the pros after that year). Let's say he made the median pitcher salary of $2.8M for that last year. With three years of the median, he'd make around $4.5M plus his signing bonus of $2M would put him at $6.5M. So even if he has an average MLB career for a pitcher, which is a pretty great result, he still could make less than he guaranteed himself with his first contract in Japan. And if he is the type of player that is above average, even for MLB, then presumably he can still make it from Japan and isn't giving up much except for maybe a couple of years of big money.

Yep, 2 mil doesn't go very far when your stuck in minor league ball making 1100$ a month or so. You use that bonus pretty quick. He definitely made the correct decision going overseas and taking a guaranteed 7 mil.