Another No Hitter

[Cooterpoot]

Which would make the HR even more optimal.

The issue with MLB isn't a lack of runs - League ERA is up three quarters of a run in the last decade. To win games you have to play the way we are seeing. The idea of changing approaches would be laughed at, "what do you want us to start losing?"

The issue with baseball is that it's become an incredibly boring product with the BB/K/HR approach. Same as the NBA with the 3. Analytics aren't going away so you need to use the rules to make the most optimal analytical approach ALSO be the most enjoyable form a fan/viewer perspective.

More runs were scored in the late 90s and early 2000s than now. Baseball is a game of constant adjustment. This launch angle stuff will go another direction soon (In reality, it's about the same thing Ted Williams was doing, minus the dead pull hitters). Generally every 5 to 10 years change comes in the form of adjustments to what pitchers are doing and what hitters are doing.

[Todd4State]

No you can't. The reason they have the approaches they do now is because it leads to the most runs scored in this pitcher dominant environment. All of these hitters COULD sacrifice some power and raise their batting averages with more singles, but the value of the HR is such compared to the ball in play it's literally not worth it. Do you think these people are dumb? They're trying to win games and the best way to do that IN THIS PITCHING/DEFENSE ENVIRONMENT is to sell out for power and who cares if I K because a ball in play is likely to be an out anyway with shifts, or if I can even manage to get a ball in play with the velocity and spin rates we see these days.

Also, bunting is really hard. And nobody wants to see that shit. People want to see early 90's version of the game, and that can be manufactured through rule changes.

Look, it takes a certain IQ level to understand the concept of "they do what they do to maximize runs in this environment." You could change approaches to a "try to beat the shift or bunt" but you would get worse actual run results if the ENVIRONMENT doesn't change, the environment being mound distance, spin rates, and shifts. It's a big-brain vs small-brain discussion. Smootness for example is fairly big-brain on the topic. Clark, Commercecomet, and Todd, small brain.

Speaking of IQ you're baseball one is very low.

You want to maximize runs? Look at the best home run hitters of all time. The Aaron's, the Ruth's, the Bond's, Pujols, A-Rod, Trout, Ted Williams etc. The vast majority could hit for power AND average. The people like you who don't know what you're talking about try to make into an either you're a singles hitter or a home run hitter argument. But the reality is the best power hitters of all time were also great hitters as well. They actually ended up hitting more, striking out less, and hit more home runs. Why? Because if you have the skill to hit the ball to all fields it makes it more difficult on the pitcher to pitch you and attack you. What happens then is the pitcher is then more likely to make a mistake. THEN you end up with a bomb. If you don't do that maybe you get a double- and yeah maybe you get a single. But all of that is valuable. Especially when it comes to getting paid in MLB. A guy that hits 25 now using this bullcrap pull only philosophy would be able to hit 40 if they actually tried to use the whole field.

MLB pitchers can get hitters out very easily that swing at everything and don't adjust at all.

[Rex54]

Speaking of IQ you're baseball one is very low.

I wouldn't normally do this, but come on...

You want to maximize runs? Look at the best home run hitters of all time. The Aaron's, the Ruth's, the Bond's, Pujols, A-Rod, Trout, Ted Williams etc. The vast majority could hit for power AND average. The people like you who don't know what you're talking about try to make into an either you're a singles hitter or a home run hitter argument. But the reality is the best power hitters of all time were also great hitters as well. They actually ended up hitting more, striking out less, and hit more home runs. Why? Because if you have the skill to hit the ball to all fields it makes it more difficult on the pitcher to pitch you and attack you. What happens then is the pitcher is then more likely to make a mistake. THEN you end up with a bomb. If you don't do that maybe you get a double- and yeah maybe you get a single. But all of that is valuable. Especially when it comes to getting paid in MLB. A guy that hits 25 now using this bullcrap pull only philosophy would be able to hit 40 if they actually tried to use the whole field.

MLB pitchers can get hitters out very easily that swing at everything and don't adjust at all.

Yeah, let's assume every hitter is going to be able to turn into the best hitters of all-time. That'll fix everything! Just to be clear your argument is that currently the vast majority of the league could increase their power AND average (and net worth by millions of dollars) but aren't because The Voice from Field of Dreams hasn't come along and whispered in their ear "go, the other way"...




"Guys, hear me out. If you want to fix offense in baseball.... you all need to become Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, and Barry Bonds"

What utter nonsense. This is why I'm bullying you on this topic. Your arguments are a waste of time and provide no actual solutions to MLB being a completely unwatchable product.

[PMDawg]

Almost all sports are pretty much unwatchable these days. A lot of it has to do with politics. They should really work on fixing that first.

As far as baseball goes, back the mound up as suggested, have a DH in both leagues, and see what happens. Go from there.

[Todd4State]

I wouldn't normally do this, but come on...



Yeah, let's assume every hitter is going to be able to turn into the best hitters of all-time. That'll fix everything! Just to be clear your argument is that currently the vast majority of the league could increase their power AND average (and net worth by millions of dollars) but aren't because The Voice from Field of Dreams hasn't come along and whispered in their ear "go, the other way"...




"Guys, hear me out. If you want to fix offense in baseball.... you all need to become Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, and Barry Bonds"

What utter nonsense. This is why I'm bullying you on this topic. Your arguments are a waste of time and provide no actual solutions to MLB being a completely unwatchable product.

The hitting approach that players are using right now is what is making MLB unwatchable. I wonder why it was more watchable doing it my way?

But yeah- keep making strawmen instead of staying on point. The point was obvious to people who aren't stupid. You imitate how the best of the best do things. And then each individual player achieves their personal best. They won't all be Babe Ruth. But they sure as hell won't be hitting .210 with 20 home runs and 200 K's either.

Another big problem with baseball is stupid people like you telling people that know baseball how it should be played.

[Todd4State]

https://twitter.com/Seth_3773/status...48218083807238


Here's a link to a former MLB pitcher explaining his take on things.

[Rex54]

The hitting approach that players are using right now is what is making MLB unwatchable. I wonder why it was more watchable doing it my way?

But yeah- keep making strawmen instead of staying on point. The point was obvious to people who aren't stupid. You imitate how the best of the best do things. And then each individual player achieves their personal best. They won't all be Babe Ruth. But they sure as hell won't be hitting .210 with 20 home runs and 200 K's either.
Another big problem with baseball is stupid people like you telling people that know baseball how it should be played.

It was more watchable back in the day because there weren't shifts, there wasn't the high average velocities, and there wasn't the focus on spin rates. Thank you for making my point!

In order to produce max runs IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT you are forced to sell out for walks and the home run. Again, scoring is UP big since a decade ago. Runs are being scored. The problem is NOT a lack of runs. The problem is how runs are forced to be scored because of the insane pitcher ability and defensive shifts. It's too hard to consistently score runs getting singles because the velocity and spin rates are out of control. You HAVE A BETTER CHANCE of winning saying "**** it" and catching a couple long balls.

Again - your argument is falling back on it being their ego or some nonsensical shit. What I'm doing is explaining the "why" all of the million dollar players and GM's and organizations are doing this approach. Trust me, it's not an ego thing. It's a "here's how we can best score runs against the league pitching" thing. If you fix the incentives towards balls in play being rewarded more and lead to better outcomes, that is the approach that will be taught/executed.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think I'll listen to Donnie Baseball about this topic

[Rex54]

I think I'll listen to Donnie Baseball about this topic

That's fine, stay anti-intellectual. Some guy's get off my lawn opinions vs the standard practice league wide. Do you truly not think that the players and organizations aren't approaching hitting the way that they are because that's what is required to maximize run production? Do you think there is just a league wide "durrr I'm just gunna swing for the fence and pull ball because going oppo is weak"? Do you think teams are actively trying to not win games?

Brunswick firmly in the small brain camp.

[BrunswickDawg]

That's fine, stay anti-intellectual. Some guy's get off my lawn opinions vs the standard practice league wide. Do you truly not think that the players and organizations aren't approaching hitting the way that they are because that's what is required to maximize run production? Do you think there is just a league wide "durrr I'm just gunna swing for the fence and pull ball because going oppo is weak"? Do you think teams are actively trying to not win games?

Brunswick firmly in the small brain camp.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's not about a strategy - it's about lack of skill. Where Mattingly is spot on is that this is an issue that started 15 years ago. What has happened in baseball is the same thing that has happened in basketball - youth leagues became about travel and winning and not learning the game and fundamentals. So, as fundamentals eroded, the only options have become swinging for the fences. Both baseball and basketball are seeing those impacts now. I'm anything but closed minded about new approaches and analytics - there is a lot of good in them. But two sports that used to be about skill are only about flash and it's going to kill both sports.

Question for you - did you actually play baseball beyond little league?

[Rex54]

You couldn't be more wrong. It's not about a strategy - it's about lack of skill. Where Mattingly is spot on is that this is an issue that started 15 years ago. What has happened in baseball is the same thing that has happened in basketball - youth leagues became about travel and winning and not learning the game and fundamentals. So, as fundamentals eroded, the only options have become swinging for the fences. Both baseball and basketball are seeing those impacts now. I'm anything but closed minded about new approaches and analytics - there is a lot of good in them. But two sports that used to be about skill are only about flash and it's going to kill both sports.

Question for you - did you actually play baseball beyond little league?

Yeah, the major leaguers lack skill.... solid argument there, genius. That's why runs have been going UP over the last decade. Again, the issue is not the lack of runs being scored... it's how the game is designed to get those runs. It's the environment in which these hitters operate. There is too much velocity, shift, and spin rate. Because of those factors the ability to get base hits have been lessened. To adjust, natural incentives have shifted to trying for HR and BB. This isn't a hard concept to understand. The same hitter that batted .300 in 2000 who took the same exact approaches would probably hit around .275 today. This means BB and HR are more valuable and must be prioritized to WIN GAMES. If you ban shifts, foreign substances, and move the mound back the INCENTIVES to not K and to get base hits would increase and thus you will get more base hits and less K's! This. Is. Not. Complicated.

[Really Clark?]

Yeah, the major leaguers lack skill.... solid argument there, genius. That's why runs have been going UP over the last decade. Again, the issue is not the lack of runs being scored... it's how the game is designed to get those runs. It's the environment in which these hitters operate. There is too much velocity, shift, and spin rate. Because of those factors the ability to get base hits have been lessened. To adjust, natural incentives have shifted to trying for HR and BB. This isn't a hard concept to understand. The same hitter that batted .300 in 2000 who took the same exact approaches would probably hit around .275 today. This means BB and HR are more valuable and must be prioritized to WIN GAMES. If you ban shifts, foreign substances, and move the mound back the INCENTIVES to not K and to get base hits would increase and thus you will get more base hits and less K's! This. Is. Not. Complicated.

You are stating runs are going up, which is true but there are historic cycles we can point to as well, but leaving that aside, if runs are going up shouldn?t you be looking at doing things to help the pitchers and defense not aid the hitters? Everything you want to do; move mound back, ban the shift, find ways to decrease spin rate are all things that would be advantageous to hitters and the biggest adjust they would have to make is waiting longer to read the pitch and spin. They wouldn?t change their approach.

We will see what happens come summer but so far it looks to be a pitchers year and runs are down on average this year but a lot ball left to be played.

[BrunswickDawg]

You are stating runs are going up, which is true but there are historic cycles we can point to as well, but leaving that aside, if runs are going up shouldn?t you be looking at doing things to help the pitchers and defense not aid the hitters? Everything you want to do; move mound back, ban the shift, find ways to decrease spin rate are all things that would be advantageous to hitters and the biggest adjust they would have to make is waiting longer to read the pitch and spin. They wouldn?t change their approach.

We will see what happens come summer but so far it looks to be a pitchers year and runs are down on average this year but a lot ball left to be played.

Exactly - and the approach has been bred into this generation of players. They can’t successfully hit to the opposite field because they haven’t consistently learned how. Lack of learning fundamentals killed bunting slowly over a generation and, and now it is doing the same to learning how to actually hit well enough to beat a shift - or even learn it well enough to keep defenses honest so they can’t shift because of the threat that you could go oppo.

And yeah Rex - I’m saying that MLB hitters are not as well rounded and fundamentally sound as a whole as they were even 10 years ago. They eat better, they are possibly in better physical condition, and they have more tech and numbers available to learn with, but they are not as skilled fundamentally as their predecessors.

[Rex54]

You are stating runs are going up, which is true but there are historic cycles we can point to as well, but leaving that aside, if runs are going up shouldn?t you be looking at doing things to help the pitchers and defense not aid the hitters? .

I want to aid the quality of the product, have you not been reading my posts? The product is shit, it's unwatchable, it's uninteresting. You have to fix the GAME to incentivize less K's and more balls in play. Unless you touch on the velocity, shifts, and spin rates THAT INCENTIVE CANNOT HAPPEN because a change in approach will lead to less runs.

[Todd4State]

It was more watchable back in the day because there weren't shifts, there wasn't the high average velocities, and there wasn't the focus on spin rates. Thank you for making my point!

In order to produce max runs IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT you are forced to sell out for walks and the home run. Again, scoring is UP big since a decade ago. Runs are being scored. The problem is NOT a lack of runs. The problem is how runs are forced to be scored because of the insane pitcher ability and defensive shifts. It's too hard to consistently score runs getting singles because the velocity and spin rates are out of control. You HAVE A BETTER CHANCE of winning saying "**** it" and catching a couple long balls.

Again - your argument is falling back on it being their ego or some nonsensical shit. What I'm doing is explaining the "why" all of the million dollar players and GM's and organizations are doing this approach. Trust me, it's not an ego thing. It's a "here's how we can best score runs against the league pitching" thing. If you fix the incentives towards balls in play being rewarded more and lead to better outcomes, that is the approach that will be taught/executed.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../MLB/bat.shtml

Runs per game are down from the 90's by almost a full run depending on what year you look at.

Shifts have been around since the 1940's. They're not new. They're used more but they're not some new sabermetric thing. A big reason for that is the stubborn approach of players who are OK just lining out to the third baseman in right field. MLB wants to see fewer shifts? Use the whole field.

Pitching has improved. Hitting has not. It has gotten worse. No one is "forced" to sell out for home runs. It's a choice that players were led to believe was "better" and now you have no-hitters every week and an unwatchble product. If it was the pitching you wouldn't have MLB players calling out the hitting approach of today's hitters. And you would have the player's on your side. And you would also have current MLB players saying that it is solely about the pitching. But you don't see that happening. It's the opposite.

If hitters would learn to use the whole field in addition to the technology that they have out there now the game would be so much better. And there are incentives to being rewarded to better outcomes. Look at Mike Trout's salary.

Moving the mound back a foot is not going to make a guy not swing at everything that is thrown up there.

[Todd4State]

https://protips.dickssportinggoods.c...ith-mike-trout


Rex says this approach won't work in today's game.**




"Knowing your game plan before you step into the batter’s box could improve your chances of scoring that runner from second or extending the inning to keep your team in the game. Former MVP Mike Trout has an inside look on his approach to situational hitting and how he’s cashed in when it’s counted most on the diamond.

“When the guy is on second base, when I’m ahead in a count or it’s the first pitch, I’m looking for a pitch to drive gap-to-gap,” Trout says.

You want a pitch that you are certain you can hit well that will get past defenders or advance the runner. “Not just right-center, left-center,” Trout says. “Get a good pitch that you can hit hard.”

[Homedawg]

Yeah, the major leaguers lack skill.... solid argument there, genius. That's why runs have been going UP over the last decade. Again, the issue is not the lack of runs being scored... it's how the game is designed to get those runs. It's the environment in which these hitters operate. There is too much velocity, shift, and spin rate. Because of those factors the ability to get base hits have been lessened. To adjust, natural incentives have shifted to trying for HR and BB. This isn't a hard concept to understand. The same hitter that batted .300 in 2000 who took the same exact approaches would probably hit around .275 today. This means BB and HR are more valuable and must be prioritized to WIN GAMES. If you ban shifts, foreign substances, and move the mound back the INCENTIVES to not K and to get base hits would increase and thus you will get more base hits and less K's! This. Is. Not. Complicated.

Are you will James ? Asking for a friend...

[Todd4State]

Are you will James ? Asking for a friend...

The lame personal insults give it away.

[Cooterpoot]

I want to aid the quality of the product, have you not been reading my posts? The product is shit, it's unwatchable, it's uninteresting. You have to fix the GAME to incentivize less K's and more balls in play. Unless you touch on the velocity, shifts, and spin rates THAT INCENTIVE CANNOT HAPPEN because a change in approach will lead to less runs.

Hell, the best stretch of ball most have seen is the steroid era. Bring back roids!

[Homedawg]

The lame personal insults give it away.

Along w bad not well thought out takes, that does it.