Leach speaking to UM law class

[RocketDawg]

Yes, to be smart, you should have turned him away. You gained nothing but put yourself at risk of financially ruinous prosecution if not jail. Realistically, that's a pretty low probability event if they are claiming it's a background check for a neighbor, but why risk a catastrophic result for nothing.

Also, while they may not have an interest in being ethical just because they want to do the right thing, maybe if being unethical impeded their operations, they would try to be ethical more often.

Yes, you're right. I've worried about talking to the agent ever since. **

[Maroonthirteen]

Yall, there quite a few MSU grads in law school at oxford

Are they mostly grads of the political science program at MSU? Or do the degrees of the Msu students run the gamut? I have a kid thinking law.

[Rex54]

So tell the full story.... what did you do? Be an ass and lie to them? And it backfired on you. That's my guess.

Again, you still think we live in a society. You can't lie to them if you don't talk to them. The FBI is purely a political enforcer of a corrupt and illegitimate system.

[Maroonthirteen]

Yes, you're right. I've worried about talking to the agent ever since. **

Yeah, I've been approached twice. Once for a buddy getting a security clearance in the military. Another, years later, for a neighbor getting a Federal job. Painless and easy.

[Johnson85]

That would be a stupid guess. You're ignorant of how 18 USC 1001 works, so you don't realize how stupid what you are saying is. It almost certainly won't matter for you. The vast majority of people won't ever need to know how stupid it is to talk to the FBI without consulting with a lawyer first. And of the ones that do, most of them will be guilty of something (and actually guilty as in culpable, not guilty in the 3 felonies a day sense), and they unfortunately are less likely to be stupid enough to think that being honest and helpful is a good approach. The ones that know that they didn't do anything wrong, or even worse, know that they didn't do anything wrong but think they understand why the FBI is mistaken about something, are the ones that are going to make a "false" statement so that the FBI won't have to prove any substantive crime occurred. They'll stupidly talk to the FBI and either get something factually wrong that gives the FBI an easy way to put them in jail or at best, they'll say something that is at least arguably wrong and they'll get the runner up prize of financially ruinous prosecution as well a loss of reputation.

[Maroonthirteen]

I know exactly how 18-1001 works. People lie to Federal Agents every day. Also, I know the US attorneys office doesn't have time or any interest in charging someone with 18-1001 for simply mixing up years. Or being confused during a background investigation.

Only time it comes into play is when you are purposely lying to impede an investigation. The elements of 18-1001 say the lie must be knowingly, willful, material and include a Federal matter. You need to learn the elements.

Now your last post.... yeah. If you're a criminal and you know you have been committing fraud and/or other crimes. Yeah, you need a lawyer. However someone just talking to the Feds as a part of a background investigation.... you don't need a lawyer and have no reason to worry.

[Rex54]

However someone just talking to the Feds as a part of a background investigation.... you don't need a lawyer and have no reason to worry.

I just want to stress to the readers of this site to please take the opposite stance as Maroonthirteen on this one. Especially if you are a white male to the right of Barack Obama politically.

[Johnson85]

I know exactly how 18-1001 works.

You clearly don't.

People lie to Federal Agents every day. Also, I know the US attorneys office doesn't have time or any interest in charging someone with 18-1001 for simply mixing up years.

You're right that US attorneys are pressed for time, which is why they will use a 1001 charge as a shortcut to make getting a plea or conviction more easily. They won't do it for shits and giggles, but they absolutely will use it to find a crime after the man is identified.

Or being confused during a background investigation.

You probably don't have to worry about it during a routine background investigation, but you won't really know if it's a routine background investigation. They probably won't lie about it being a routine background investigation because it will usually be more effective to put you on the spot and under pressure, but if they do, and they ask about whether you were at a meeting a year prior with the purported subject of the background investigation, are your antennae going to go up and start flashing warnings? Most people's won't. Even if you can successfully argue that 1001 doesn't apply because you thought it was a background check, congratulations on getting a very expensive and stressful victory. It's all cost and no benefit to participate (unless you are participating to help a close friend or family member get a clearance).

Only time it comes into play is when you are purposely lying to impede an investigation. The elements of 18-1001 say the lie must be knowingly, willful, material and include a Federal matter. You need to learn the elements.

This is hopelessly naive. But as for the elements, the FBI in theory won't be questioning you if it's not about a federal matter and the materiality element has basically been watered down to nothing. It's practically assumed that the FBI wouldn't be asking and you wouldn't be "lying" if it wasn't material.

Now your last post.... yeah. If you're a criminal and you know you have been committing fraud and/or other crimes. Yeah, you need a lawyer. However someone just talking to the Feds as a part of a background investigation.... you don't need a lawyer and have no reason to worry.

You probably don't need a lawyer and probably don't have a reason to worry. It's still a suckers move to put you and your family at risk like that.

[Maroonthirteen]

Dude, I work with AUSAs and the FBI, everyday (almost) for a long time.

I have a feeling you have sat or sit at the defense table. That's cool. I'd enjoy hearing your story how you or a client got charged with 1001 for simply mixing up years.

[BeardoMSU]

Well, this thread as taken an interesting turn...

[Johnson85]

Well, this thread as taken an interesting turn...

Just trying to help Maroonthirteen and other poor naive, trusting souls protect their cornholes.

[BeardoMSU]

Just trying to help Maroonthirteen and other poor naive, trusting souls protect their cornholes.

Hey, that type of advice is always welcomed, lol.