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Thread: I feel better about our weekend rotation

  1. #21
    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Price is not good enough to close
    I agree

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOdawg1 View Post
    0% I'd make Cerantola closer. That's how you lose baseball games.
    Probably, but if he can't get it together as a starter, he's good enough that you have to try him in different roles. If the reports about him in the fall aren't BS, it seems pretty clear it's just a mental hurdle. Presumably closer would be a worse position for him because he'd be even more tempted to overpitch knowing he wasn't going to get a lot of innings, but I don't think you can count on mental problems being logical. Hopefully he figures it out as a starter.

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    Sims is the fireman and the perfect guy for the closer role. BUT, we need one of the young guys that can can bring it to come thru and be totally reliable when we need strikeouts (Sims current role). Smith is fine as a long relief guy but he doesn’t get a lot of K’s so he is better off starting an inning without runners on.

    Price’s problem is, he doesn’t have the velocity. A mistake with a slider over the plate and it is like hitting a softball b/c they know that is what is coming.

    Bottom line, we need one of the hard throwing young guys to take the next step.

  4. #24
    Einhorn DeviousDawg's Avatar
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    Jesus Todd.... multiple people beat me to it, but c?mon mannnn....

    Cerantola can?t throw strikes in the first few, low pressure, innings. So let?s just throw him out there in the highest pressure situation where we need strikes, and 3 outs to win the game. Sound logic there.

    I don?t like to call people out, but SOMETIMES, I wonder how much you really know about the game.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousDawg View Post
    Jesus Todd.... multiple people beat me to it, but c?mon mannnn....

    Cerantola can?t throw strikes in the first few, low pressure, innings. So let?s just throw him out there in the highest pressure situation where we need strikes, and 3 outs to win the game. Sound logic there.

    I don?t like to call people out, but SOMETIMES, I wonder how much you really know about the game.
    Do you know what Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman started out as? Starting pitchers. Relief pitching is a different animal than starting. Completely different. Some guys that suck as starting pitchers thrive in that role.

    Now, Cerentola may or may not be able to close. I'm not saying he WILL. I'm saying it's worth exploring. Give him a chance late in a game that we either have a big lead or we are way behind and see how he does. If he looks good- then gradually bring him along.

  6. #26
    Einhorn DeviousDawg's Avatar
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    We are not speaking long term projections though, we are talking about this season. We have plenty of arms, no need to explore something when we all know what is on the other side of the ridge. He is a starter for us, plain and simple. If he cannot cut it as a weekend guy we will move him to midweek, if he cannot cut it as a midweek guy he will take the Evan Mitchell route, take the money and run.

    He?s got an MLB starter arm, we all know this, as do the scouts. Nothing he does or does not do this year will change that fact. He is comparatively new to the game, and I am very confident he will figure it out at some point in his career, could be next week, could be 2 years from now in whatever organization takes him this summer. Either way this is his last year, he can continue to develop at school, or he can get a 7 figure signing bonus and develop in the minors where his only job is baseball.

    He is a 3 pitch guy with ridiculous spin rate, once he develops his secondary stuff and learns to consistently locate his fastball IN GAMES, he will be hell on wheels as a starter. Lemo has said he has one of the best changeup he has ever seen and has high first round spin rate on his breaking ball. That aint a closer, thats a starter once he puts it all together. Mariana, he is a unicorn who found a once in a generation pitch, not a fair comparison.

    With all this said, projections be damned, we are trying to win baseball games NOW. Right NOW, Eric has problems that lie beyond his physical capabilities, his problems are between his ears. You dont take a freakish arm with snakes in his head, who is struggling to handle the pressure, and throw him into the loneliest, and possibly highest pressure situation/position in sports, that is what this boils down to.

    Closers are not necessarily the best pitchers or strongest throwers, especially not in college ball, arm talent is not the requirement, mental fortitude is. We will continue to give him a chance as starter with a short leash, until he either figures it out or shows he cannot do it. He is not moving to the pen, and most certainly not moving to the closer role. It literally makes zero sense. It would literally be the absolute worse thing you could do for him and the team. I get it in theory, he has strike out stuff, hard thrower, but he is not and never will be a closer for Mississippi State. End of story.

  7. #27
    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousDawg View Post
    We are not speaking long term projections though, we are talking about this season. We have plenty of arms, no need to explore something when we all know what is on the other side of the ridge. He is a starter for us, plain and simple. If he cannot cut it as a weekend guy we will move him to midweek, if he cannot cut it as a midweek guy he will take the Evan Mitchell route, take the money and run.

    He?s got an MLB starter arm, we all know this, as do the scouts. Nothing he does or does not do this year will change that fact. He is comparatively new to the game, and I am very confident he will figure it out at some point in his career, could be next week, could be 2 years from now in whatever organization takes him this summer. Either way this is his last year, he can continue to develop at school, or he can get a 7 figure signing bonus and develop in the minors where his only job is baseball.

    He is a 3 pitch guy with ridiculous spin rate, once he develops his secondary stuff and learns to consistently locate his fastball IN GAMES, he will be hell on wheels as a starter. Lemo has said he has one of the best changeup he has ever seen and has high first round spin rate on his breaking ball. That aint a closer, thats a starter once he puts it all together. Mariana, he is a unicorn who found a once in a generation pitch, not a fair comparison.

    With all this said, projections be damned, we are trying to win baseball games NOW. Right NOW, Eric has problems that lie beyond his physical capabilities, his problems are between his ears. You dont take a freakish arm with snakes in his head, who is struggling to handle the pressure, and throw him into the loneliest, and possibly highest pressure situation/position in sports, that is what this boils down to.

    Closers are not necessarily the best pitchers or strongest throwers, especially not in college ball, arm talent is not the requirement, mental fortitude is. We will continue to give him a chance as starter with a short leash, until he either figures it out or shows he cannot do it. He is not moving to the pen, and most certainly not moving to the closer role. It literally makes zero sense. It would literally be the absolute worse thing you could do for him and the team. I get it in theory, he has strike out stuff, hard thrower, but he is not and never will be a closer for Mississippi State. End of story.
    I hope Cerentola figures things out but no way do I think he is a closer, just my opinion. He will be given the chance to be in the Sec rotation, talented yes but mostly in practice so far.

  8. #28
    Einhorn DeviousDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Now, Cerentola may or may not be able to close. I'm not saying he WILL. I'm saying it's worth exploring. Give him a chance late in a game that we either have a big lead or we are way behind and see how he does. If he looks good- then gradually bring him along.
    Todd its all about pressure as a closer, its all about being mentally capable. If we put him in when we are way up or way down, that does not translate at all to closing. When you are way up or way down there is zero pressure. When you are up 1 in the bottom of the 9th at Alex Box with 10,000+ crazy coon asses screaming at you in a game 3 rubber match, that is pressure. Again, Eric?s main issue is between his ears. He needs time on the mound, and extended outings to grow confidence and find his groove. In bullpens, he hits his spots, and looks like a Friday night ace with ++ stuff and velo. Why doesnt he look like that in games? One word, PRESSURE. Some never can handle it, some figure it out, and I hope he does. I can tell you one thing though, the answer is not to put him under even more pressure where what he does directly decides if we win, or he blows it and we lose.

    We have plenty of other guys that could potentially be a closer for us. I still think we are overreacting a bit on Spencer Price because of one 2-out bomb, you cant save them all, although, I do agree with most of the general concerns around him to an extent. Spencer believes no one can hit him, he wants the ball, he thrives on the pressure, and he has a short memory. You cannot put someone in as a closer until they show you that they can, 1) handle the pressure, and 2) throw freakin strikes. Right now Eric can do neither consistently, when/if he shows he can, he will be one of the best starting pitchers in college baseball, not a closer.

    Sorry if I was harsh, didnt mean it. Just a terrible take, my man, it happens to all of us every now and then.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousDawg View Post
    Todd its all about pressure as a closer, its all about being mentally capable. If we put him in when we are way up or way down, that does not translate at all to closing. When you are way up or way down there is zero pressure. When you are up 1 in the bottom of the 9th at Alex Box with 10,000+ crazy coon asses screaming at you in a game 3 rubber match, that is pressure. Again, Eric?s main issue is between his ears. He needs time on the mound, and extended outings to grow confidence and find his groove. In bullpens, he hits his spots, and looks like a Friday night ace with ++ stuff and velo. Why doesnt he look like that in games? One word, PRESSURE. Some never can handle it, some figure it out, and I hope he does. I can tell you one thing though, the answer is not to put him under even more pressure where what he does directly decides if we win, or he blows it and we lose.

    We have plenty of other guys that could potentially be a closer for us. I still think we are overreacting a bit on Spencer Price because of one 2-out bomb, you cant save them all, although, I do agree with most of the general concerns around him to an extent. Spencer believes no one can hit him, he wants the ball, he thrives on the pressure, and he has a short memory. You cannot put someone in as a closer until they show you that they can, 1) handle the pressure, and 2) throw freakin strikes. Right now Eric can do neither consistently, when/if he shows he can, he will be one of the best starting pitchers in college baseball, not a closer.

    Sorry if I was harsh, didnt mean it. Just a terrible take, my man, it happens to all of us every now and then.
    The biggest difference between starting and closing is starters have to be able to go through the lineup three times. A closer only has to go through a lineup once. Totally different mentality from an approach standpoint. It's also a little different because most hitters are going to look to work the count meaning that they are typically going to take pitches. Closers know this- and that sometimes relaxes them too.

    There is a fallacy that there is less pressure as a starter. It's just a different type of pressure. But it's not the SAME type of pressure as a closer. Some guys do better in relief than they would as a starter, and some guys can start and not relieve- usually because they like to be in a consistent routine, and then some like Randy Johnson can do both.

    A lot of MLB closers start out just like Cerentola before they find their role. I'd even go so far as to say most start out as starting pitchers. And a lot of them have the exact same issues that Cerentola has as starting pitchers. So much so it's almost like a broken record. And it looks like you don't get my point about breaking him in slowly. You're acting like I'm saying annoint Cerentola the closer now. No- you bring them along slowly and that's how you know if he can do it or not without hurting the team. Mariano Rivera has to be a set-up man for a little while. And he was the best to ever do it. Dennis Eckersley started for years. I remember when Jason Isringhausen was one of the top starting pitching prospects for the Mets.

    I mean, I'm glad we completely gave up on Daniel Brown after he failed as a starter in 2016.** He struggled as a starter for us and we moved him to the bullpen and he was quite effective and now has a pretty good shot of being a Big Leaguer. Now how could that ever happen with all that PRESSURE?

    I'm just saying it's worth looking into because it might work. If it doesn't - we have plenty of other options. Heck - Preston Johnson and Stone Simmons look like really good options too.

    But yeah- what do I know? I only have someone on speed dial on my phone that has saved MLB games for a living for nine years.**

  10. #30
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basedog View Post
    I hope Cerentola figures things out but no way do I think he is a closer, just my opinion. He will be given the chance to be in the Sec rotation, talented yes but mostly in practice so far.
    Let's see how he does the next two weeks. He will start for that long at least. And he should since he has only had one start this year.

  11. #31
    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Let's see how he does the next two weeks. He will start for that long at least. And he should since he has only had one start this year.
    Hopefully he will settle down.

  12. #32
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Something that I see as a trend for Lemonis is stability in the line up and player roles within the team. If you look at the stats of Starts, batting order position, etc. it appears that Lemo establishes his starters (both pitchers and hitters), his relief core, and his platoon positions at the start of the season and pretty much sticks to it (injuries not withstanding). If you are looking to see him juggle the lineup, move pitchers around from starter to closer, etc. you are going to be disappointed. He doesn't tinker every game like Cohen did.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  13. #33
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    But yeah- what do I know? I only have someone on speed dial on my phone that has saved MLB games for a living for nine years.**
    Did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night too?
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  14. #34
    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Something that I see as a trend for Lemonis is stability in the line up and player roles within the team. If you look at the stats of Starts, batting order position, etc. it appears that Lemo establishes his starters (both pitchers and hitters), his relief core, and his platoon positions at the start of the season and pretty much sticks to it (injuries not withstanding). If you are looking to see him juggle the lineup, move pitchers around from starter to closer, etc. you are going to be disappointed. He doesn't tinker every game like Cohen did.
    I think that benefits us in the long run also. Cohen rarely let everyone get accustomed to the line up and get comfortable.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousDawg View Post
    We are not speaking long term projections though, we are talking about this season. We have plenty of arms, no need to explore something when we all know what is on the other side of the ridge. He is a starter for us, plain and simple. If he cannot cut it as a weekend guy we will move him to midweek, if he cannot cut it as a midweek guy he will take the Evan Mitchell route, take the money and run.

    He?s got an MLB starter arm, we all know this, as do the scouts. Nothing he does or does not do this year will change that fact. He is comparatively new to the game, and I am very confident he will figure it out at some point in his career, could be next week, could be 2 years from now in whatever organization takes him this summer. Either way this is his last year, he can continue to develop at school, or he can get a 7 figure signing bonus and develop in the minors where his only job is baseball.

    He is a 3 pitch guy with ridiculous spin rate, once he develops his secondary stuff and learns to consistently locate his fastball IN GAMES, he will be hell on wheels as a starter. Lemo has said he has one of the best changeup he has ever seen and has high first round spin rate on his breaking ball. That aint a closer, thats a starter once he puts it all together. Mariana, he is a unicorn who found a once in a generation pitch, not a fair comparison.

    With all this said, projections be damned, we are trying to win baseball games NOW. Right NOW, Eric has problems that lie beyond his physical capabilities, his problems are between his ears. You dont take a freakish arm with snakes in his head, who is struggling to handle the pressure, and throw him into the loneliest, and possibly highest pressure situation/position in sports, that is what this boils down to.

    Closers are not necessarily the best pitchers or strongest throwers, especially not in college ball, arm talent is not the requirement, mental fortitude is. We will continue to give him a chance as starter with a short leash, until he either figures it out or shows he cannot do it. He is not moving to the pen, and most certainly not moving to the closer role. It literally makes zero sense. It would literally be the absolute worse thing you could do for him and the team. I get it in theory, he has strike out stuff, hard thrower, but he is not and never will be a closer for Mississippi State. End of story.
    All of this is why you don't give up on Cerantola without trying him in different roles. His mental problems are likely to get worse if he is a closer, but they're mental problems, they're not always predictable. And I would say you are also wrong about needing to win games now. The objective is to win games in June. You have to win enough games to get to June, but giving Cerantola a few chances to figure it out in different roles is not likely to be the difference between us playing in June or not, and if he figures it out, it will be a major difference for us in June. Have to at least try if he doesn't figure things out as a starter in the next few weeks.

  16. #36
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    As others have stated, closing is all about mentality. And Cerrantola doesn't have a very strong mental game IMO. Just watch how he pitches in tight situations compared to Sims, Fristoe, or Smith. I just don't ever get the feeling he wants the ball in those situations. To be a closer, you have to be an absolute DAWG. Heck, Spencer Price may not have the stuff anymore but he's got the cockiness that he still wants the ball in those situations. It's all about belief in your stuff and Cerrantola has never shown that he has great belief in the pitches he throws.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson85 View Post
    All of this is why you don't give up on Cerantola without trying him in different roles. His mental problems are likely to get worse if he is a closer, but they're mental problems, they're not always predictable. And I would say you are also wrong about needing to win games now. The objective is to win games in June. You have to win enough games to get to June, but giving Cerantola a few chances to figure it out in different roles is not likely to be the difference between us playing in June or not, and if he figures it out, it will be a major difference for us in June. Have to at least try if he doesn't figure things out as a starter in the next few weeks.
    Cerantola is going to be a fine, fine middle inning guy for us. He pitched in Omaha and did a good job versus Vandy in Relief. He did have a good statistical game starting vs Oregon State, too. But Middle Relief is prolly his best role and it's an important one. No need for him to be a stressed starter when Firstoe and Harding can do it so well. Next starter is probably Stone Simmons who was Furman's Friday night guy on Opening Day as a True Freshman. Coach Polk said (paraphrased), He's very good pitching at 95-96, when he goes beyond that, the control is not the same.

    This was Cerantola's first inning versus the Beavers....

    Oregon State 1st - McDowell walked (3-1). McGarry struck out swinging (1-2). McDowell advanced to second on a wild pitch. McDowell advanced to third on a wild pitch. Ober walked (3-2). Claunch struck out swinging (0-2). Dukart struck out swinging (3-2). 0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, 2 LOB.

    Thats about as exiting and nervous as a No Runs, No Hits, and No Error inning can be.

  18. #38
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    I think there is such a thing as closer mentality. No question. But in EC case it's not his mentality, it's the fact he's never had any success. Yes a decent start here and there but hats it. He lacks confidence that he can do it. Why? Bc he never has!!! The coaches, the fans and the team all know he has command issues. He damn sure knows it and until he can have a couple of starts that don't have multiple innings of nuke he can't get any confidence. Run him out there a couple more times and hope it happens. If it does it's a bonus. I don't know anyone who thinks our year is based on him. With that said if he can harness it, lookout. He's a freak. We shall see.

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