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Thread: Off Topic Tuesday - Student Loan Forgiveness

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    Senior Member Lord McBuckethead's Avatar
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    Off Topic Tuesday - Student Loan Forgiveness

    This topic isn't to enter into a philosophical political discussion. I just want to have a civil discussion to discuss how this can, or should this be even done, and what benefits does it have either way. I am going to lay out an argument, and I hope these ideas can make a difference.

    First, the idea of forgiving 50k worth of federal student loans is stupid. I graduated MSU with 22k worth of student loans, that could have easily been 60k if things didn't bounce my way. Working during school really wasn't an option. My major was too demanding week in and out. There may have been entire months that didn't really allow time to be spent out of the building. Either way, I signed the promisary note and agreed that the money borrowed for me to earn my degree was a fair trade.

    Beyond the personable responsibility facet of the discussion, let's discuss the other side of the equation. Cost of an education. It has literally skyrocketed. Some of this is due to the federal guarantee to student loans. Some of it is to the funding cut from the state to lower state tax burden on both citizens and corporations. Some of it is because universities waste money hand over fist. Either way, tuition, books, room and board, etc have all just 6Xs the inflation rate over the past 20 years.

    So what do we do? The discussion right now is to forgive 50k. I just do not see why people who chose to either work through college or simply did not go to college in the first place should have to take on this burden. It would free up tons of capital for the economy. But what happens next year, and the year after that. New student loans will just be created. Fix the cost of "state" universities and then each state is responsible for the cost of their "state's" higher education.

    So, I see a possible compromise. I can agree, freeing up student loan money for the economy would be a gigantic consumer boost to the economy over the next 20 years. So how do we do it? Here is the compromise. Let the people who need the help with student loans be the ones to pay for it.

    If you accept the one time 50k loan forgiveness, then you agree to pay an additional 2.5% federal and 0.5% state income tax for the rest of your life, or the amount forgiven is paid off. This way, it pays for the system. People who do not need the avalanche of payments removed do not have to pay for it, and it only accounts for 3% of your earnings year to year. Some people are probably paying 20% or more of their earnings after taxes on student loans. That is crazy. The numbers could be adjusted based on projections a little, but dang that makes a lot of sense to me versus just handing out 50k to every person with 50k worth of loans.
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    Senior Member starkvegasdawg's Avatar
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    If this happens what will be next on the slippery slope? $50k of mortgage forgiveness? If we pay off loans for people that couldn't afford college then why not pay off loans for people that bought too much house? There will rapidly come a point when the populace will be unable to pay all of the social programs enacted by the govt for no other reason than to buy votes. And let's not kid ourselves...all of this may be under the guise of helping people but it's nothing else than using my money to buy the vote of someone else.

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    The entire thing is bs. That's all.

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    Senior Member Lord McBuckethead's Avatar
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    It is a slippery slope, but unlike mortgages, student loans can never be expunged through bankruptcy and for good reason because everyone would rack up a ton of student loan debt and then declare bankruptcy the last 3 months of their senior year.

    I still say, let the bargain be with those taking the money for forgiveness. 2.5% of their income for life is a fair trade. That way people can get out from the gigantic payments and yet pay for it themselves. No one is the wiser. Doesn't effect anyone not carrying student loan debt.
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    Senior Member Lord McBuckethead's Avatar
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    If I were a republican house or senate member, this is exactly my proposal. Everyone can agree that the mountain of debt is ridiculous for students. There are rules all over the place about which ones you can and cannot consolidate. Why can't we all get behind this, is beyond me. It offers a solution to the issue, pays for itself, and leaves everyone before this exactly as they are.
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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    The simplest way to help would be to convert the loans to no/low interest loans. Rates my daughter's Freshman year for Federal Student Loans was 7.5% - at $60k in loans over 20 years you end up paying $120K+ at $532 a month.
    That's wrong for a government sponsored program. We give away billions in loans annually at no interest to business and industry, but charge students ridiculous rates to get an education.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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    Senior Member Big4Dawg's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/jfIDh2yGn_g

    I saw this a couple months ago and thought it was pretty interesting. Something needs to be done about the increased cost. Not sure what but something.

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    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    College costs have gotten out of control. But there's no such thing as free money. Kids shouldn't have to take out $50,000+ in loans to get a good education. Why should kids start life with that kind of debt? The whole damn system is screwed up.
    Last edited by Cooterpoot; 02-16-2021 at 05:20 PM.

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    An education that cost nothing for any and all will eventually be worth nothing.

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    The US Government subsidizes nearly all industries to some degree to include oil, agriculture, automotive, and healthcare. If it can give free money to private companies and private individuals, then it should be able to help former students with their loans.

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    They are going to check to see if you posted a black square on social media before doing away with your student loans.

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    I wouldn?t be opposed to student loan forgiveness for high skilled, technical, engineering or medical occupations, but we shouldn?t be forgiving loans for liberal arts or interdisciplinary studies.

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    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgoneyall View Post
    An education that cost nothing for any and all will eventually be worth nothing.
    That's BS. There should be a system in place that puts kids in better situations from college to trade schools. The cost doesn't make the degree. That's silly as hell! You can go to a small, private, liberal arts school and get a worthless degree for 5 times the cost.
    Last edited by Cooterpoot; 02-16-2021 at 05:58 PM.

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    Senior Member Maroonthirteen's Avatar
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    What do "we" do? We make choices.

    You can study, get a 23 on the ACT and go to Community College tuition free. If you commute, you can save there, owe nothing and be half way to a degree. Then on the weekend go
    Party with your friends in Starkville and Oxford.

    Or you choose to go to a 4 year, pay $20k a year for the same classes and dorm. Then party on the weekend in Starkville and Oxford.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    That's BS. There should be a system in place that puts kids in better situations from college to trade schools. The cost doesn't make the degree. That's silly as hell! You can go to a small, private, liberal arts school and get a worthless degree for 5 times the cost.
    You are wrong.

    Making a degree void of personal responsibility will make degrees worth less and less.

    Just human nature.

    I think we agree but you can't just give college away....

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    Senior Member BeardoMSU's Avatar
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    As a college professor, I will readily admit that universities are doing kids no favors by encouraging/allowing them to bury themselves in debt majoring in BS degrees that won't get them a job capable of paying it back. Granted, I'm speaking from the STEM perspective, which certainly has issues worth addressing, but IMO, a lot of the ire can be directed to the Humanities...

    The purpose of college should be attaining skills and training that help you become gainfully employed...there are way too many degree programs that don't even try to do that. I'm all for "the arts" and taking electives to broaden your horizons (I was an 8 year member of the FMB, after all), but if "using your art degree" is working as a cashier at Michael's, you probably should've thought about that before...

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    The problem began when education became a requirement to make a reasonable living. I remember my grandparents and beyond doing well for themselves and some didn't even finish HS. Much of what you learn in college is filler anyway to jack up the price. Apprenticeships and on the job training for specialties has always made the most sense to me.

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    Senior Member SapperDawg's Avatar
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    I would also add a component is service as a forgiveness pathway. I did it through the Army, but the military is not and should not be for everyone.

    The USDA, Forest Service, Teach for America, Peace Corps, NOAA, Indian Health Service, and others should be outlets. Four years of service = loan/partial loan forgiveness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardoMSU View Post
    As a college professor, I will readily admit that universities are doing kids no favors by encouraging/allowing them to bury themselves in debt majoring in BS degrees that won't get them a job capable of paying it back. Granted, I'm speaking from the STEM perspective, which certainly has issues worth addressing, but IMO, a lot of the ire can be directed to the Humanities...

    The purpose of college should be attaining skills and training that help you become gainfully employed...there are way too many degree programs that don't even try to do that. I'm all for "the arts" and taking electives to broaden your horizons (I was an 8 year member of the FMB, after all), but if "using your art degree" is working as a cashier at Michael's, you probably should've thought about that before...

    This..

    Make college free for all and there will be an explosion of Liberal Art degrees.

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    Senior Member BeardoMSU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapperDawg View Post
    I would also add a component is service as a forgiveness pathway. I did it through the Army, but the military is not and should not be for everyone.

    The USDA, Forest Service, Teach for America, Peace Corps, NOAA, Indian Health Service, and others should be outlets. Four years of service = loan/partial loan forgiveness.
    Education majors can do that as well by teaching in "low-income" areas for a certain amount of time.

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