Ben Howland (SEC Record) - 47-52 in 6 years

[confucius say]

Convenient that it got cancelled last year or that more likely than not would have been your two in six.

It is possible. Although we were on the outside of the bubble in 95% of the brackets (you can see all of the brackets on bracketmatrix.com). We were likely to play Florida on Friday and Tennessee on Saturday. Winning both of those prob would have done it.

But even if you don't count last year, that is 1 appearance in five years. 20%. Still needs to be 2 out 5.

[MSUDAWGFAN]

Stands inherited a loaded team. 2 guys got a cup of coffee in the NBA. Dietrick White was a beast. That team when Williams was the HC was expected to be an NCAA team that season. Williams had to step down and Stands made an NCAA Tourney type team an NIT team

Who is Dietrick White? I remember Dietrick "SLeepy" Slater, because he always looked tired in his photos.

Botom line - if you can't remember one of the best players on the team, it wasn't as good as you remember. Let your hate of Stans go man....

[MSUDAWGFAN]

Stands was 39-41 in SEC play after 5 seasons. Then the Baylor scandal happens and Lawrence Roberts drops in his lap, we have the wonderful '03-'04 season with the Road Warriors, lose 1 key player (Bowers) for '04-'05 and go 9-7 in league play. How do you go 9-7 with Roberts, Power, Ervin, Frazier and Harper???? Yeah, we made the NCAA - But that team had enough talent to win the league again.

Probably because Frazier was injured a pretty decent part of the schedule. Charles Rhodes ended up being great, but he and Walter Sharpe weren't ready as freshmens. Other than them, we had Piotr Stelmach, Big Feces, and Jamal Edmondson coming off the bench, so we had no bench play. And Ervin was not a playmaker at point guard.

[MSUDAWGFAN]

We are nowhere close to a bubble team right now.

But I do think coming into this year it was fair to say Ben had gotten us to that point. And I think next year should be a tourney team. He is getting close to where stans had us, he just needs a few more tourneys. Stand made the ncaa 37.5% of the time here. Ben is at 17% unless he makes it this year.

Ben is at 25%. He has been here 5 years and there have been 4 NCAA tournaments in that time. He made one of them. 1/4 = 25%. Maths is hard.

[Johnson85]

1. That's fair.

2. So you think that if we were consistently doing good and could actually pull out some major wins we still wouldn't have any fan support? Explain the years that we were exciting to watch when the Hump was packed.

Instead, we drop some that should be W's, and may squeeze out one we shouldn't once or twice a year. And the reason for the random W's is questionable.

3. So we should just settle for the same as the previous 4-5 years and not make a change so that Howland can coast to retirement from MSU? How long does it take to get a program turned around? He's gotten his guys in place. Same results though. I'm sure there are plenty of new age, up and coming coaches that will gladly take a coaching position in the SEC. Do I want Cohen to handle the hire? No, but that doesn't appear that it's going to change.

If fan support is what you are after, the ship has sailed unless Howland has some sort of renaissance. Highly unlikely.

These same threads year after year saying the same exact things surely must not be a sign.

There wasn't a whole lot to indicate Stans was going to be good his first few years. The only thing you could say for him is he was young enough to learn. But he got the right mix of players and we were suddenly good with basically the same coaching.

Howland can do the same thing. He may not, but the guys he is recruiting (now) seem to be pretty good character guys. It's not ridiculous to think he's going to put together a mix of guys that will gel.

[Johnson85]

Not me. That is a positive.

It's not the down years that is bens problem. It's the lack of tourney appearances. One in six years is not enough. He needs at least two in six years. Maybe he can win the sec tourney this year and make it two in six years.

Howland actually got hurt by not starting from closer to scratch. He actually inherited several upperclassmen that were solid pieces. They just needed to be support pieces, and we ended up spending a year giving significant minutes to develop seniors that were role players. Then he got bit by players that couldn't be kept happy because they were 60% as good as they thought they were.

The only year that deserves a lot of criticism to me is last year. He underachieved. Can talk about not having Nick for however many games, but still should have been safely in the tournament. This is probably his best coaching job to date at MSU and he's getting raked over the coals for how shitty he did last year.

[BB30]

The stans hate by some is so obvious. Did he bang your mothers? Just admit he had our program relevant and an impassioned fan base. The decision to fire him killed our program.

I'm prob one of the only persons on here that can acknowledge that who also is a supporter of Howland. I don't think Ben will ever reach the ceiling stans reached here (4 straight tourneys), but I do think he can get us to be a consistent bubble team.

There is a difference in being a Stans hater and a realist.

I loved Stans and thought he did well considering our basketball history. I think most people bring up stans in defense of what Howland has done so far. They aren't hating on Stans, simply pointing out to Howland haters that Stans wasn't really any better and took over a much better situation than Howland did.

Nobody in our fanbase should hate either of them as they have both performed at about the same clip so if you were satisfied with what Stans did there should be no reason to be unsatisfied with what Howland has done so far. You can't have it both ways. Either both suck or both were a tick above average for our history here. They are extremely similar.

[Coach34]

Who is Dietrick White? I remember Dietrick "SLeepy" Slater, because he always looked tired in his photos.

Botom line - if you can't remember one of the best players on the team, it wasn't as good as you remember. Let your hate of Stans go man....

Seriously? Did ya think about researching before making an ass out of yourself?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...tate/1999.html

[confucius say]

There is a difference in being a Stans hater and a realist.

I loved Stans and thought he did well considering our basketball history. I think most people bring up stans in defense of what Howland has done so far. They aren't hating on Stans, simply pointing out to Howland haters that Stans wasn't really any better and took over a much better situation than Howland did.

Nobody in our fanbase should hate either of them as they have both performed at about the same clip so if you were satisfied with what Stans did there should be no reason to be unsatisfied with what Howland has done so far. You can't have it both ways. Either both suck or both were a tick above average for our history here. They are extremely similar.

14 years. Stans made 6 NCAA and 5 nit.

Ben is not close to that right now. He may can get there though if we give him time.

[Coach34]

14 years. Stans made 6 NCAA and 5 nit.

Ben is not close to that right now. He may can get there though if we give him time.

Stands inherited a ready made program. Howland has had to rebuild- there is a difference. Not to mention how much harder it is now vs when Stands coached. There is no more weak SEC West where Stands got to play a divided schedule. He played the best teams in the SEC once. We have played Kentucky home and Away multiple times under Howland.

Howland has us back to Stands level- Bubble team year after year. We have dropped a little this year due to what we lost- but nobody doubts we will be strong next season. Howland is Stands. Better recruiter than Coach.

[BeardoMSU]

Stands inherited a ready made program. Howland has had to rebuild- there is a difference. Not to mention how much harder it is now vs when Stands coached. There is no more weak SEC West where Stands got to play a divided schedule. He played the best teams in the SEC once. We have played Kentucky home and Away multiple times under Howland.

Howland has us back to Stands level- Bubble team year after year. We have dropped a little this year due to what we lost- but nobody doubts we will be strong next season. Howland is Stands. Better recruiter than Coach.

This.

[Dawsonmsu]

53 -27 - conference USA record in 5 years - Rick Stansbury says hello from Western Kentucky.

[Coach34]

53 -27 - conference USA record in 5 years - Rick Stansbury says hello from Western Kentucky.

He is the least successful WK coach since then the 1950’s

[confucius say]

He is the least successful WK coach since then the 1950’s

And our most successful since integration.
And we ran him off. Just To take a decade to be close to getting back to where we were when he left. Mind boggling decision.

[confucius say]

Stands inherited a ready made program. Howland has had to rebuild- there is a difference. Not to mention how much harder it is now vs when Stands coached. There is no more weak SEC West where Stands got to play a divided schedule. He played the best teams in the SEC once. We have played Kentucky home and Away multiple times under Howland.

Howland has us back to Stands level- Bubble team year after year. We have dropped a little this year due to what we lost- but nobody doubts we will be strong next season. Howland is Stands. Better recruiter than Coach.

Ready made program? He took over a program that was coming off two straight seasons of sucking and not have a winning record.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

What gives?

I?m here for the pathetic excuses. I?m always amazed what the great basketball minds we are privileged to have here come up with..

[Johnson85]

And our most successful since integration.
And we ran him off. Just To take a decade to be close to getting back to where we were when he left. Mind boggling decision.

The program was a shitshow at the end of his tenure. Certainly not so bad that we should have run him off without a plan, but the decision to move in a different direction was perfectly understandable. Stans had lost the team and was compromised as far as instilling discipline again. Decision could have even been made a year earlier although that would have made having a viable replacement lined up that much harder.

Stans was a good coach for us overall. The program was really good at times and not so good at times. We generally underachieved compared to our talent outside of the Road dogs year, but overachieved compared to our program resources and status. Basically the same thing Howland is doing now except Howland hasn't had a high peak yet and hasn't had a real valley yet since getting the program on its feet, although last year was a pretty bad underachievement.

[Johnson85]

Ready made program? He took over a program that was coming off two straight seasons of sucking and not have a winning record.

There is a reason Williams was fired and it wasn't just his extracurricular activities. It was his extracurricular activities while underperforming. That said, Stans didn't take over a Rick Ray program.

[MadDawg]

Stands inherited a ready made program. Howland has had to rebuild- there is a difference. Not to mention how much harder it is now vs when Stands coached. There is no more weak SEC West where Stands got to play a divided schedule. He played the best teams in the SEC once. We have played Kentucky home and Away multiple times under Howland.

Howland has us back to Stands level- Bubble team year after year. We have dropped a little this year due to what we lost- but nobody doubts we will be strong next season. Howland is Stands. Better recruiter than Coach.

Bwaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha