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Thread: I just don't get coaches....

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    I just don't get coaches....

    Vrabel punts on 4th and 2 at the Ravens 40 in the 4th quarter down 4 points. Analytics have it at almost 100% go for it. And the Titans lose the game. I wonder if 20 years later, everyone will laugh at ever punting in a situation like that.

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    It?s a coaching disease that runs rampant in old school coaches. After the punt, Baltimore had the ball back where TN punted from after 2 plays. It?s beyond stupid

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    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    I think that's a dumb punt. I think analytics can get you in trouble too though. Frank Reich is a really big analytic guy. Yesterday, he passed up on a fg late 2nd quarter to go on 4th and goal from the 4. Maybe I go it's 2 yards or less, but 4? No way. He lost game by 3.

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    You have to remember most coaches are PE majors.

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    Coming from a baseball perspective on this and speaking in general on analytics...

    I think you can go too heavy in one direction or the other. I think analytics and "traditional" thought are best used together to make a most informed decision.

    The funny thing about analytics in baseball is I think it has gotten so shifted in another direction of thought that the results are probably coming out in the wash.

    I think where there is a disconnect with most fans that I see between the two is you have a stat where something should be done "in general" but I think a coach has to know his personnel and what they are capable of on an individual/group level to make that most informed decision.

    Now I will say this- if that were my team I would want the coach to go for it. So I'm not saying that the right decision was made here but I think fans need to keep in mind that it's not always as easy as looking at a book from Bill James and doing what the book says.

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    You have to remember most coaches are PE majors.
    It's different at the NFL level. Those guys are typically pretty bright CEO types. You can't be Bobby Hall and run a NFL or even a D-1 college team. And these coaches have to answer to the media about their decisions and most teams have analytical staffs so they're aware of what the stats say to do in most instances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    You have to remember most coaches are PE majors.
    This is false. It's hard as hell to get a PE job because there are only a couple of people per school that teach PE. Most coaches today majored in a major subject
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    This is false. It's hard as hell to get a PE job because there are only a couple of people per school that teach PE. Most coaches today majored in a major subject
    Mike Vrabel has a degree in Exercise Science.
    Last edited by Leeshouldveflanked; 01-10-2021 at 10:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsDawg View Post
    Vrabel punts on 4th and 2 at the Ravens 40 in the 4th quarter down 4 points. Analytics have it at almost 100% go for it. And the Titans lose the game. I wonder if 20 years later, everyone will laugh at ever punting in a situation like that.
    And it just happened again in the Steelers game. 4th and 2 down by 2 scores and Tomlin decides to punt. Browns then score. These coaches are so scared to lose that they can't win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msugolf View Post
    And it just happened again in the Steelers game. 4th and 2 down by 2 scores and Tomlin decides to punt. Browns then score. These coaches are so scared to lose that they can't win.
    I turned the game off when the punter came onto the field.

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    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    Mike Vrabel has a degree in Exercise Science.
    Belicheck - has a degree in economics
    Saban has a business degree
    Leach has a law degree
    Urban Meyer has a psychology degree
    Mike Tomlin has a Sociology degree
    Dabo Sweeney has a Business Admin degree
    Ryan Day Business Admin
    Brian Kelly- Political Science
    Mike McCarthy- Business Admin
    Ron Rivera- Criminal Justice
    Sean McDermott- Finance

    I could keep going but no need
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Belicheck - has a degree in economics
    Saban has a business degree
    Leach has a law degree
    Urban Meyer has a psychology degree
    Mike Tomlin has a Sociology degree
    Dabo Sweeney has a Business Admin degree
    Ryan Day Business Admin
    Brian Kelly- Political Science
    Mike McCarthy- Business Admin
    Ron Rivera- Criminal Justice
    Sean McDermott- Finance

    I could keep going but no need
    Just curious, but I would love to know their ACT score and GPA (that's not sarcasm, I really would like to know). And they are coaching guys who struggle on the Wonderlic. Coaches have a gazillion things to think about in a short amount of time. If they decide something just 5 seconds too late, it could lead to a delay of game penalty or using a timeout.

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    From working around high school coaches, I'm always surprised how stubborn they are, unwilling to embrace new ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Coming from a baseball perspective on this and speaking in general on analytics...

    I think you can go too heavy in one direction or the other. I think analytics and "traditional" thought are best used together to make a most informed decision.

    The funny thing about analytics in baseball is I think it has gotten so shifted in another direction of thought that the results are probably coming out in the wash.

    I think where there is a disconnect with most fans that I see between the two is you have a stat where something should be done "in general" but I think a coach has to know his personnel and what they are capable of on an individual/group level to make that most informed decision.

    Now I will say this- if that were my team I would want the coach to go for it. So I'm not saying that the right decision was made here but I think fans need to keep in mind that it's not always as easy as looking at a book from Bill James and doing what the book says.
    And the analytics are based on human decision, so that already tells you it should not be black and white.

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    Quote Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw View Post
    Just curious, but I would love to know their ACT score and GPA (that's not sarcasm, I really would like to know). And they are coaching guys who struggle on the Wonderlic. Coaches have a gazillion things to think about in a short amount of time. If they decide something just 5 seconds too late, it could lead to a delay of game penalty or using a timeout.
    I suspect most of your DI head coaches are well above average intellects. There may be a few that are good managers without being particularly bright themselves, but I suspect they are a small minority. If you are a coordinator and not smart enough to get x's and o's and make quick decisions, it's going to be hard to get to a head coach position. Maybe a few that also rise to where they are through recruiting (where too much intelligence could actually be a drawback b/c it makes it harder to relate to high school students in general), but I doubt they last long if they aren't also reasonable smart so that they can manage a program (cough, Pruitt, cough).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Belicheck - has a degree in economics
    Saban has a business degree
    Leach has a law degree
    Urban Meyer has a psychology degree
    Mike Tomlin has a Sociology degree
    Dabo Sweeney has a Business Admin degree
    Ryan Day Business Admin
    Brian Kelly- Political Science
    Mike McCarthy- Business Admin
    Ron Rivera- Criminal Justice
    Sean McDermott- Finance

    I could keep going but no need
    How about Jeremy Pruitt? Vegetable Science maybe? **

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    Quote Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw View Post
    Just curious, but I would love to know their ACT score and GPA (that's not sarcasm, I really would like to know). And they are coaching guys who struggle on the Wonderlic. Coaches have a gazillion things to think about in a short amount of time. If they decide something just 5 seconds too late, it could lead to a delay of game penalty or using a timeout.
    I suspect that just about all, maybe all, higher level coaches are pretty sharp.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
    I suspect that just about all, maybe all, higher level coaches are pretty sharp.
    I would say the same thing, Pruitt aside.

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    Coaches do stupid shit like trying to cover Davonta Smith deep with a MLB...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked View Post
    Coaches do stupid shit like trying to cover Davonta Smith deep with a MLB...
    They work 100 hours a week and end up with #32 on the Heisman winner.

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