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We kept Stands around because he could recruit. We fired him because he could not win the big game. This situation we are in now is starting to feel pretty similar. The only thing we are missing is a team fight. Not saying he needs to go, I like him. Just pointing out my observation.
Last edited by Jack Lambert; 01-02-2021 at 11:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by
Jack Lambert
We kept Stands around because he could recruit. We fired him because he could not win the big game. This situation we are in now is starting to feel pretty similar. The only thing we are missing is a team fight. Not saying he needs to go, I like him. Just pointing out my observation.
Funny part was that Stans won all kinds of big games during the regular season. Even won an SEC title and the SEC tourney twice (should have been 3 counting the John Wall lane violation game). Only big games he couldn't win were the ones that would have gotten us past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. Howland hasn't won anything at State yet, regular season or otherwise. If he had he could have won back over a lot of the fans that have just basically thrown in the towel on men's basketball.
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Howland has won 20-plus games 3 seasons in a row. That was good enough for the Stands cult for Stands to keep his job. So what?s the problem?
Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is
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Originally Posted by
confucius say
Firing howland would be stupid. We are actually building. Calm down.
Hopefully he will get us back to where stans had us soon (in the tourney or a bubble team every year).
We are building, but our ofdensive direction is 17n terrible.
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Originally Posted by
msu15
That's fine. I'm sorry that you think Howland is such a good basketball coach even though he hasn't accomplished anything in his time here. You won't have to worry about me logging in to this site anymore. Hail State!
No threads were deleted. I'm sorry your delicate flower was hurt with your non important thoughts of the game was merged into
.. You know the game thread...during.. The game...
But.. You won't ever see this since you jumped to conclusions and said you weren't logging in any more. Bye bye
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Originally Posted by
Lord McBuckethead
We are building, but our ofdensive direction is 17n terrible.
Surprisingly, we're 72nd out of 339 teams in offensive efficiency. We were 34th out of 353 last year.
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-ba...ate=2020-03-12
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If we hit a few more free throws we probably only have one loss. That is partially on the coach but mainly on the players. To be a great team, they players have to have an internal drive to work. From our free throw shooting, it looks like some are not putting in the extra work on their own to be great. Can only do so much in the limited practice time they have.
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Originally Posted by
RougeDawg
If we hit a few more free throws we probably only have one loss. That is partially on the coach but mainly on the players. To be a great team, they players have to have an internal drive to work. From our free throw shooting, it looks like some are not putting in the extra work on their own to be great. Can only do so much in the limited practice time they have.
It's frustrating as hell. If you look at the bottom 4 in the sec at FT shooting, it's Kentucky, South Carolina, auburn, and us. All 4 teams lost a ton of players from last year. Perhaps FT shooting can be tied to experience. Whatever the reason, we have to get better.
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Originally Posted by
RougeDawg
If we hit a few more free throws we probably only have one loss. That is partially on the coach but mainly on the players. To be a great team, they players have to have an internal drive to work. From our free throw shooting, it looks like some are not putting in the extra work on their own to be great. Can only do so much in the limited practice time they have.
It's pretty much entirely on the coaching staff as FT shooting is just one of the many things evaluated during the recruiting process. I don't believe these guys just magically somehow showed up at MSU and forgot how to shoot FTs. Poor free throw shooters have almost always been poor free throw shooters. I guess our coaching staff thought their poor free throw shooting ability was worth taking when weighed against their other qualities. And you can live with a couple of guys that play that can't make a lot of free throws but we just have way too many of them on one team and it will cost us a lot of close games. Seriously, Cam Matthews gets a good number of minutes and is 1-11 on free throws. How does a guy play basketball most of his life and be that bad at shooting a free throw? I believe if you put me at the free throw line and blindfolded me I could make 1 out of 11.
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Howlands teams can be frustrating, but he hasn?t done anything to warrant him being fired. He has us competitive again after the Rick Ray debacle. I don?t think he is the best coach, but if we can even go 8-10 in the SEC this year that is a positive and next year we have a chance to really compete. Firing him would just lead to Cohen hiring someone like Ray
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Originally Posted by
PGHBulldogBG
Howlands teams can be frustrating, but he hasn?t done anything to warrant him being fired. He has us competitive again after the Rick Ray debacle. I don?t think he is the best coach, but if we can even go 8-10 in the SEC this year that is a positive and next year we have a chance to really compete. Firing him would just lead to Cohen hiring someone like Ray
I in no way am advocating getting rid of Howland. He is doing fine and about as well as you can expect given our fans lousy support of the sport. While he hasn't gotten to the level Stans did in his peak years from 01-05, he is doing about as well as we did during the Stans era for the rest of it. And that may be as much as we can do unless our fans decide they really want to support the program again in a meaningful way. My biggest complaint with Howland is he had the built in recruiting advantage of a lot of high rated MSU legacies to take advantage of (Malik Newman, Tyson Carter, Reggie Perry, Robert Woodard) plus the Weatherspoons and yet we didn't really accomplish much with all of that. That could have been used to bring the fans back but we sort of wasted it. Now we are just trying to make the team work with a lot of journeyman lower rated guys. We will see how it goes. I do think Howland could use some coaching help on the offensive end. We never look well coached on that end of the floor. And man it really cost us on that last possession of the first OT last night where we had a chance to win and didn't even try to run a play.
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One of the two is true: 20 wins and a one-and-done tourney appearance is the ceiling for MSU basketball or the program has underachieved with Howland.
And please stop mentioning Rick Ray! He's been gone for 6 years!!! That's like blaming our 3-7 football team on Rocky Felker. Building a basketball program isn't a 8-year undertaking.
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Originally Posted by
PendingTransaction
One of the two is true: 20 wins and a one-and-done tourney appearance is the ceiling for MSU basketball or the program has underachieved with Howland.
And please stop mentioning Rick Ray! He's been gone for 6 years!!! That's like blaming our 3-7 football team on Rocky Felker. Building a basketball program isn't a 8-year undertaking.
What do you think is acceptable for our program? Consider recruiting base, facilities, fan support, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Coach34
Howland has won 20-plus games 3 seasons in a row. That was good enough for the Stands cult for Stands to keep his job. So what?s the problem?
I agree with this. Howland should be safe. He almost has us back to where stans had us. Running him off now would be the same mistake we made running off stans.
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Originally Posted by
PendingTransaction
One of the two is true: 20 wins and a one-and-done tourney appearance is the ceiling for MSU basketball or the program has underachieved with Howland.
And please stop mentioning Rick Ray! He's been gone for 6 years!!! That's like blaming our 3-7 football team on Rocky Felker. Building a basketball program isn't a 8-year undertaking.
Rick Ray is the reason that our basketball team lost support. It was a disaster hire much like Moorhead. Luckily with Moorhead we got rid of him before it turned bad. I am by no way blaming our performance recently on Ray, just making a point that is what caused the lack of fan support. This is actually my favorite team to watch since the Stans days because they actually play as a team and give 100 percent effort. Unfortunately, we probably need a sweet 16 to bring back a lot of the support
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Originally Posted by
PGHBulldogBG
Rick Ray is the reason that our basketball team lost support. It was a disaster hire much like Moorhead. Luckily with Moorhead we got rid of him before it turned bad. I am by no way blaming our performance recently on Ray, just making a point that is what caused the lack of fan support. This is actually my favorite team to watch since the Stans days because they actually play as a team and give 100 percent effort. Unfortunately, we probably need a sweet 16 to bring back a lot of the support
True, Ray's two years of bad baseball lost the fans. Good basketball will bring the support back... 6 years and counting
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Originally Posted by
PendingTransaction
True, Ray's two years of bad baseball lost the fans. Good basketball will bring the support back... 6 years and counting
Yeah, we just need to find that coach that can get us in the tourney every year. 1996 sorta make us crazy as a fanbase. No one considers OM a good basketball program, but let's do a side by side...
Ncaa tourneys since integration:
State 10
OM 9
Conf tourney champs since integration:
State 4
OM 3
Sec champs since integration:
State 2
OM 0
Sweet 16 since integration:
State 2
OM 1
Final 4:
State 1
OM 0
We just haven't ever been a very good basketball program. Certainly not good enough to run off coaches like stansbury and howland without paying a price. Imagine looking in on our program as an outsider... we don't give our team any support, zero. We don't have a good recruiting base. We have aging facilities. We pay howland 12-13th in salary in the sec. Despite all this, we wanna run howland off bc being a bubble team is unacceptable given our storied program.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
Yeah, we just need to find that coach that can get us in the tourney every year. 1996 sorta make us crazy as a fanbase. No one considers OM a good basketball program, but let's do a side by side...
Ncaa tourneys since integration:
State 10
OM 9
Conf tourney champs since integration:
State 4
OM 3
Sec champs since integration:
State 2
OM 0
Sweet 16 since integration:
State 2
OM 1
Final 4:
State 1
OM 0
We just haven't ever been a very good basketball program. Certainly not good enough to run off coaches like stansbury and howland without paying a price. Imagine looking in on our program as an outsider... we don't give our team any support, zero. We don't have a good recruiting base. We have aging facilities. We pay howland 12-13th in salary in the sec. Despite all this, we wanna run howland off bc being a bubble team is unacceptable given our storied program.
Great points. Our basketball ball program has more pressing needs than a new coach. Perhaps the build it, they will come approach is what's needed. Other than the practice facility, the Hump is the same as it was when I was a student almost 35 years ago.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
What exactly do you think is acceptable for our basketball program?
Beating Kentucky once a decade would be a good start.
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Originally Posted by
HoopsDawg
Going to have to replace Ado and Jalen Johnson. Better find a great transfer.
Much less daunting than replacing Perry, Woodard, Nick and Tyson
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