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Thread: 2nd lowest point total scored vs OM in 2020

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Yay, we hung with OM. When did they pass us as a program?
    We can change the subject. When did we pass OM as a program? Historically speaking we haven't.

  2. #102
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt3467 View Post
    We can change the subject. When did we pass OM as a program? Historically speaking we haven't.
    We've clearly been better the last few years.

    Did you (or anyone here) say OM had passed us as a program preseason? No

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Yay, we hung with OM. When did they pass us as a program?
    I think the seeds were sewn in the Moorhead era when we had a chance to create some real separation given their NCAA issues and didn?t do it. They were a 4-8 team last year and we beat them by one point at home. And recruiting-wise they?ve hit on some guys in key positions where we have not.

    This year they returned a lot offensively and have stayed in tact, while our roster was a mismatch of parts to begin with and has had a ton of turnover and young guys being thrown into the fire.

    I thought they were getting way ahead of us until the last two games. Now I feel differently, even after they beat us today.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Mullen took over a team that wasn't good at all, and played one of the toughest schedules in the country. Every state fan was excited about mullen. There was zero concern over Dan his first season
    This is correct

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOdawg1 View Post
    Here's the deal. A few weeks ago, I was convinced this offense would never work in the SEC. I still think that, but I think if he adapts, it has a chance. Leach's pass to run ratio seems to be moving heavier towards pass as his career goes on. That's not going to work. At Texas Tech, he ran the ball much more, and I think he needs to move back to that. I know he's not gonna abandon the air raid. I'm not advocating for him to. But he's got to establish a better running game than he has now. This simple draw BS isn't enough. He needs more pre-snap movement, sweeps, counters, maybe a read option. Those are easy 8 yard gains that he's giving up on in favor of check down passes. The defense isn't having to think. A thinking defense is a slow defense.

    Right now, this offense will put up enough points to beat bad teams. If you have a negative play, the drive is toast. If you have to move with a sense of urgency, you're toast. If you have a 3rd or 4th and short, you're limited on what you can do because you literally have two running plays. It doesn't make sense. Leach can keep doing this and he'll win 4-5 games a year and will retire to Key West in 2 more years. Or he can adapt, add creativity and a better running game, and bump our ceiling to 7-8 wins. It's up to him.
    You don't pay 5 mil for a 7-8 win ceiling

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    This is just a crap thread and the type that makes a lot of folks wish C34 would just post less. We have AT LEAST 2 more years of Leach and he has obviously lost a lot of players that didn't buy into his ways. Between that and injuries and COVID, given what he has left, I am just fine with what I'm seeing on the field. At least they are giving a good effort and I see some improvement on the offensive side. Attrition has just killed our defense. But WHAT good does a post like this do unless you are just trying to influence the fan base to NOT support the current HC. And like I said, this isn't a deal where a coaching change might be made, this is a situation where Leach has 2 more years no matter what. A post like this does nothing but create negativity in the fanbase. Now if we are still bad next year with a year to learn the system AND a spring practice and players not quitting then I could understand a post like this. But given the situation, this thread is crap.
    AMEN Thanks

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    We've clearly been better the last few years.

    Did you (or anyone here) say OM had passed us as a program preseason? No
    Have they? It took us losing how many players for them to beat us today?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt3467 View Post
    I respect C34 and usually always enjoy reading his takes but it's clear here that he and plenty others on this board have an ax to grind with Leach. I really don't think they want him to succeed. Regardless of how our record is at the end of the year this year has been the most difficult year in the history of MSU football and it's much more difficult for us than probably any other D1 team I know of with covid, culture, opt-outs, tap outs combined. I don't always agree that moral victories are good but in this case I'm very happy with what I see. I believe that 3 years from now barring any more virus issues that we will be very good.
    It's not that there's an ac to grind. But it's clear that our offense is very limited and not because of talent. That's only obvious to those that want to see it. Hopefully adaptations are part of the offseason.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    And about Dan Mullen- if the season ended today offensively we would have averaged as many points as Dan's offense did against SEC opponents in 2010 and 2011. I'm only using SEC opponents since that's all Leach has to play in year one. Since everyone felt so good about Dan's offense in 2009.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    It's not that there's an ac to grind. But it's clear that our offense is very limited and not because of talent. That's only obvious to those that want to see it. Hopefully adaptations are part of the offseason.
    So- in theory our offense will be the same when Leach gets upperclass players and more players that fit his system? Correct?

    This despite players running open on every play.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    You don't pay 5 mil for a 7-8 win ceiling
    So we should pay even more for coaches? The 5 million dollar thing is absolutely irrelevant and ridiculous.

    We're not paying 5 million for one season. We're paying 5 million for long term overall success.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    We've clearly been better the last few years.

    Did you (or anyone here) say OM had passed us as a program preseason? No
    I'm sorry, what about last years 1 point win because of a missed extra point means we were "clearly better"? We were better the 3 years before that. But we aren't the better PROGRAM.

    A team can go up and down year to year. A program includes national perception, prestige, ability to attract a good coach, recruiting, facilities, and yes, wins. We've only been better than them recently in wins. Was 2019 Auburn the better program than 2019 Bama? No, but Auburn was able to win because teams change year to year.

    Well, State never really separated from OM. We were relatively up with Jackie, we were relatively down withCroom, we were relatively up till Freeze got things going, both programs skyrocketed to even heights in '13-'15, and Om fell off about 2 wins a year relative to us for a few years after that. Now JoMo created a soft culture Leach had to fix, and Luke left Kiffin no such issues and a lot of talent on O.

    We're the same. '16 we beat them but the overall W-L's were the same. '17 we lost but had the better team. '18 we beat them and had the better team. Last year we essentially tied and had even teams. This year we have even teams and a fumble was the difference in the game. Nothing about our recent relative program success over them is drastic enough to make us a better PROGRAM overall to a level where OM can't ever beat us.

  13. #113
    Senior Member BeardoMSU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    You don't pay 5 mil for a 7-8 win ceiling
    How much were we paying Dan when he left, and how much did we offer him to stay? And what was his yearly avg in wins?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    So we should pay even more for coaches? The 5 million dollar thing is absolutely irrelevant and ridiculous.

    We're not paying 5 million for one season. We're paying 5 million for long term overall success.
    Todd go back read the context / he was talking down the road.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    We've clearly been better the last few years.

    Did you (or anyone here) say OM had passed us as a program preseason? No
    At the end of last year's game with OM did you think we would beat OM this year? What about when we retained JOMO?

    Did your opinion change the day we hired ML?

    Did it change again?

    What were your expectations this morning relative to today's game?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardoMSU View Post
    How much were we paying Dan when he left, and how much did we offer him to stay? And what was his yearly avg in wins?
    We aren't talking average. We are talking ceiling

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    So- in theory our offense will be the same when Leach gets upperclass players and more players that fit his system? Correct?

    This despite players running open on every play.
    I'm taking scheme and play calling. There is not enough deception in this offense to slow down fast defenses. It will have to be adjusted to do anything memorable here. But I love our young players.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardoMSU View Post
    How much were we paying Dan when he left, and how much did we offer him to stay? And what was his yearly avg in wins?
    If anyone's wondering we matched Florida's $6M offer.

    Some people are still suck in old ways. Coaching salaries have been booming for a while. Stop thinking of what a coach "deserves" to get paid or you'll always be shaking your head at how much a given coach is underperforming. The reality is the difference between a 6 win and an 8 win coach is several millions in value ot the athletic program, let alone the local economy. THAT'S why the salaries keep booming, you can't afford to not pay them

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    It's not that there's an ac to grind. But it's clear that our offense is very limited and not because of talent. That's only obvious to those that want to see it. Hopefully adaptations are part of the offseason.

    It's limited because of Fr LT Fr QB Fr WR Fr RB's and because of reps at practice.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    We aren't talking average. We are talking ceiling
    Dan won 10 games once, Jackie won 10 games once, and Leach has won 11 and 10 games a his previous 2 stops.

    So yeah, I'd say our ceiling under Leach is about the same as our ceiling always has been

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