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Thread: Lets take Joe Mo's 2 years out.

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    Lets take Joe Mo's 2 years out.

    Weigh in on a Mullen---->Leach coaching transition

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indndawg View Post
    Weigh in on a Mullen---->Leach coaching transition
    Look, me, and a couple of my buddies who all work full time jobs could have drawn up a few run plays with the 2018 Defense ( three first rounders) and won 8 games in 2018....I'm not joking...The 2019 version of Joe Moe at the end of the year was so bad that it was embarrassing...To answer your question, I think that it would have been very similar year one, year two 2019, I think Leach could won at least the 6 or more.....If we take 18' and 19' out of the equation, I think there has been such a huge drop off in talent and players who are trying to adjust from a run, play action offense to the Air Raid that you would see similar struggles.
    Last edited by BogeyGolfer; 11-14-2020 at 08:19 AM.

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Fitz in the Air Raid? He's my Dawg - but man would that have been a disaster. I think you would have seen him grad transfer to UF and finish out with Dan (and possibly flirt with winning the Heisman with UF's WR). From what I've seen so far, Arnett might have made that '18 D even better. With a good culture staying intact, we also wouldn't have suffered with the Tutor 10 in '19.

    I still think the offense suffers and struggles from the massive change in approach though.

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    Senior Member Tbonewannabe's Avatar
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    We would have lost games 3-2 on the regular. We definitely would have had less guys that would fit in the Air Raid than we do now.

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    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    It would've been hard to lose more than Moorhead lost.

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    Senior Member msu15's Avatar
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    11-2 in 2018
    Fire Ben Howland

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    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    We had drug issues and problems developing at the end of the Mullen regime.

    It would've obviously been easier to go from Mullen to Leach but it wouldn't have been spotless. The Moorhead experiment created discipline and pretty large drug issues on the team that have to be cleaned up before we have any chance of winning
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    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msu15 View Post
    11-2 in 2018
    Yes but problems would've started right after that.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

    Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More

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    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    I hated the Moorhead hire and I didn't care for the Leach hire much but at least he had a track record. Mullen hung us out when he couldn't leave after 2014/2015. And really, his recruiting bottomed out before then. It was going to be a tough transition regardless, but Moorhead destroyed a lot of things and an AD who doesn't have a clue about our football program set us back 5 years making the hires he made. I blame all three of those guys. I trying not to blast Leach too much because we're stuck with him and need it to work or you can add two more years to the sucking if it doesn't. Leach is less flexible than any coach we could've hired. He doesn't get playmakers on the field by creating packages, no run game adjustments, nothing...it's 100% about his offensive installation and getting his players. It's going to take time (if it works).
    Last edited by Cooterpoot; 11-14-2020 at 11:00 AM.

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    Gardner Mineshew would have come in and done pretty well. Probably 10-2.

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    Senior Member Red Sox Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CottonDog View Post
    Gardner Mineshew would have come in and done pretty well. Probably 10-2.
    Good point. This would also be year three and he would have his guys here so we should be rolling.

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CottonDog View Post
    Gardner Mineshew would have come in and done pretty well. Probably 10-2.
    I don't think he would have been as good here with a batch of OL and WR learning a new system (and not very good WR either). But, I think Mixon and Thomas would have been better fits then some of the guys we have now.

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    Senior Member msu15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Yes but problems would've started right after that.
    No doubt, no telling what 2019 would have looked like.
    Fire Ben Howland

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Not good.

    The real problem is the people in the shadows that select the AD though. If you go back to it. MSU's problem is we don't have anyone in athletic administration or boosters that understand that to win in the SEC you must have upperclassmen at every spot and MSU has never valued football recruiting at the level it should. A good example is Deion Smith. If we were living in another state the booster would be making damn sure a player like that doesn't leave. In Mississippi it's "Oh, well it's LSU and they're telling him that they're going to be good again soon (I'm assuming we're not telling him that we're going to be good?**)." "And hey Todd4State- why don't you open up your wallet." That's a pretty big problem because MSU as a program does not do what it takes to land the players it needs in state.

    We should have let Dan walk after 2015. He should be thanking us every chance he gets but the fact of the matter is he is too arrogant to appreciate what we did for him. Weak ass Stricklin talked Keenum into not making him go to Maryland. And I remember Bo Bounds calling me an "idiot" because I said we should have made him walk back in 2015. Funny thing is this "idiot" was right the entire time- and why people want to listen to dumb mother ****ers that don't know sports on the radio and know less about it than the average person tuning I'll never understand. Of course that worthless piece of trash isn't man enough to admit he was wrong- not like I would tune in to hear it anyway. Just go on to the next idiotic "hot take".

    Anyway- had we done that our recruiting likely would have been better because Dan completely checked out after 2014. He sucked at roster management which is why we're starting all freshmen and sophomores- and that was going to happen no matter the coach. MSU ALLOWED it. That's on the AD- Stricklin and Cohen.

    So, Stricklin leaves and his coup to get Cohen in as AD works- which should scare the hell and piss off any MSU fan. Cohen doesn't know anything about athletics unless it's baseball. Really he should have just resigned and been the assistant AD in charge of baseball. Instead we have a guy that doesn't know marketing, doesn't know anything about running an athletic department, and took too much advice from MSU AD greats like LT and Stricklin which is why our AD is full of lazy good old boys who half ass it because the guy in charge doesn't know the difference. And yeah OK- the food got better for football this year but that's probably only because it was contracted out and not run by a good ol boy and food was and is not the biggest issue at MSU right now.

    So herein lies the problem- if we fire Cohen the same people that put him in charge will just put their next puppet in place so that they can keep their access and great seats. And the problem there is we need those people because we need their money. Let's be honest this guy is our next AD. And it's sad that I know that years in advance.

    https://emueagles.com/staff-director...-wetherbee/470

    So Cohen takes horrible advice and hires Moorhead when he should have been looking for experienced head football coaches. We end up with a culture shit show with major gaps at position groups and now we're at the bottom- which I think is good in a way because I think Leach will start to build up from here and we'll get better one way or the other because like Arkansas it's a lot easier to look good the worse your situation is. Ask Dan Mullen about that too. Ultimately Leach will be fine here. I think he'll get us to 8-10 wins a year and an occasional upset- like LSU this year. We'll see. Worst case scenario he at least will leave the next guy QB's and WR's to work with and decent culture to build from. Maybe we'll have players that can actually execute a forward pass rather than a bunch of guys on offense watching Dak and Nick make plays running while they stand around and try to get in the way of defenders.

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    I am too far removed from ?insiders? at MSU, but I don?t really understand the real reason Mullen was so unhappy here. I completely understand him leaving for Florida due to it being a step up, but I don?t understand why he was trying to go to places like Maryland and other schools that are less than or equal to MSU. Penn State, Florida even Miami are understandable, but I don?t get some of the random schools. We paid him well and was liked by most fans, so I don?t understand his want to leave some place lateral every year. You don?t see Matt Campbell, Colin Klieman, Tom Allen, Pat Fitzgerald etc constantly putting their name out for lateral jobs

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Fitz in the Air Raid? He's my Dawg - but man would that have been a disaster. I think you would have seen him grad transfer to UF and finish out with Dan (and possibly flirt with winning the Heisman with UF's WR). From what I've seen so far, Arnett might have made that '18 D even better. With a good culture staying intact, we also wouldn't have suffered with the Tutor 10 in '19.

    I still think the offense suffers and struggles from the massive change in approach though.
    It's very possible that Leach would have been able to attract Gardner Minshew to MSU in 2018, so he would have been a tremendous upgrade from Fitz.

    Did we have the OL and WR in 2018 to take advantage of a top defense and really good QB? Would we still have first year growing pains?

    Even though Minshew was a one-year guy at Washington State, everyone else there had been in the system for years. At MSU right now, EVERYONE is new to the system.

  17. #17
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Not good.

    The real problem is the people in the shadows that select the AD though. If you go back to it. MSU's problem is we don't have anyone in athletic administration or boosters that understand that to win in the SEC you must have upperclassmen at every spot and MSU has never valued football recruiting at the level it should. A good example is Deion Smith. If we were living in another state the booster would be making damn sure a player like that doesn't leave. In Mississippi it's "Oh, well it's LSU and they're telling him that they're going to be good again soon (I'm assuming we're not telling him that we're going to be good?**)." "And hey Todd4State- why don't you open up your wallet." That's a pretty big problem because MSU as a program does not do what it takes to land the players it needs in state.

    We should have let Dan walk after 2015. He should be thanking us every chance he gets but the fact of the matter is he is too arrogant to appreciate what we did for him. Weak ass Stricklin talked Keenum into not making him go to Maryland. And I remember Bo Bounds calling me an "idiot" because I said we should have made him walk back in 2015. Funny thing is this "idiot" was right the entire time- and why people want to listen to dumb mother ****ers that don't know sports on the radio and know less about it than the average person tuning I'll never understand. Of course that worthless piece of trash isn't man enough to admit he was wrong- not like I would tune in to hear it anyway. Just go on to the next idiotic "hot take".

    Anyway- had we done that our recruiting likely would have been better because Dan completely checked out after 2014. He sucked at roster management which is why we're starting all freshmen and sophomores- and that was going to happen no matter the coach. MSU ALLOWED it. That's on the AD- Stricklin and Cohen.

    So, Stricklin leaves and his coup to get Cohen in as AD works- which should scare the hell and piss off any MSU fan. Cohen doesn't know anything about athletics unless it's baseball. Really he should have just resigned and been the assistant AD in charge of baseball. Instead we have a guy that doesn't know marketing, doesn't know anything about running an athletic department, and took too much advice from MSU AD greats like LT and Stricklin which is why our AD is full of lazy good old boys who half ass it because the guy in charge doesn't know the difference. And yeah OK- the food got better for football this year but that's probably only because it was contracted out and not run by a good ol boy and food was and is not the biggest issue at MSU right now.

    So herein lies the problem- if we fire Cohen the same people that put him in charge will just put their next puppet in place so that they can keep their access and great seats. And the problem there is we need those people because we need their money. Let's be honest this guy is our next AD. And it's sad that I know that years in advance.

    https://emueagles.com/staff-director...-wetherbee/470

    So Cohen takes horrible advice and hires Moorhead when he should have been looking for experienced head football coaches. We end up with a culture shit show with major gaps at position groups and now we're at the bottom- which I think is good in a way because I think Leach will start to build up from here and we'll get better one way or the other because like Arkansas it's a lot easier to look good the worse your situation is. Ask Dan Mullen about that too. Ultimately Leach will be fine here. I think he'll get us to 8-10 wins a year and an occasional upset- like LSU this year. We'll see. Worst case scenario he at least will leave the next guy QB's and WR's to work with and decent culture to build from. Maybe we'll have players that can actually execute a forward pass rather than a bunch of guys on offense watching Dak and Nick make plays running while they stand around and try to get in the way of defenders.
    Totally agree on Deion Smith and Calloway. The fact that we can’t get them is hideous and an extreme indictment on our boosters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I don't think he would have been as good here with a batch of OL and WR learning a new system (and not very good WR either). But, I think Mixon and Thomas would have been better fits then some of the guys we have now.
    Mixon and Thomas are perfect for this O. Imagine Bumphis in it as well. We would still suck on O though without a run game.

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