New bye week

[BuckyIsAB****]

Lol, 2 drives and he's beaten it? We play 4 qtrs. What happened the remainder of the game? Terrible offense is what happened.

We did not see the drop 8 much after that. We got pressure especially on 2nd down

[bulldawg28]

We did not see the drop 8 much after that. We got pressure especially on 2nd down

And your point is? .....The offense didn't adjust, terrible offensive play. They did nothing that we haven't already played or seen on film for them.

[BuckyIsAB****]

And your point is? .....The offense didn't adjust, terrible offensive play. They did nothing that we haven't already played or seen on film for them.

That is just not true. My point was as you know the boogey man drop 8 is not Leach kyptonite. OLs who are out matched are

[HancockCountyDog]

That is just not true. My point was as you know the boogey man drop 8 is not Leach kyptonite. OLs who are out matched are

The drop 8 with athletes is a problem for him. The fact that you won't admit that makes the rest of your posts simply meaningless.

[HancockCountyDog]

What was our turnover difference in the Arky and UK games

Of course that is why we lost - but we put up under 300 yards against Kentucky and close to 200 yards against A&M . It is way different to move the ball all over the field and simply turn it over. We have struggled to move the ball against teams with athletes that play the 3-8. That really can't be disputed at this point.

Maybe Leach has figured it out and we won't see it again, but that seems unlikely.

[BuckyIsAB****]

If y?all think that the man has won 11 games twice and all these awards but there is some magical defense out there that he has no answer for, you are as hardheaded as you think I am.

I want the drop 8 experts to explain it for me since it?s so great why don?t we run it? What are we getting that is giving us problems? What kind of front is it? And I do not mean just a 3 man I mean what techs? What kind of coverage is it? I do not mean just 8 guys in coverage is it 1? 2? Man free? Quarters? Rip liz match? Cloud? Put your money where your mouth is

[FISHDAWG]

I don't give a shit if it sounds like Genespage or not.

I'm saying for those to place their anger in the right direction- Dan's recruiting and Moorhead's culture and not the guy who has had six games to try to fix it. It's very obvious why our problems are what they are- and if those people aren't smart enough to process that then they need to go follow someone else for a little while.

And if they want to be mad at Cohen that's fine too and legit since he hired Moorhead. But that's not Leach's fault either.

You do nothing but insult MSU fans here .... at what point are you willing to acknowledge Leach has some skin in these glaring issues ? .... Are you saying he has no faults or there is absolutely nothing he can do as the head coach to influence the performance NOW.... other than to run players off ?
You need to quit insulting the fans

[bulldawg28]

If y?all think that the man has won 11 games twice and all these awards but there is some magical defense out there that he has no answer for, you are as hardheaded as you think I am.

I want the drop 8 experts to explain it for me since it?s so great why don?t we run it? What are we getting that is giving us problems? What kind of front is it? And I do not mean just a 3 man I mean what techs? What kind of coverage is it? I do not mean just 8 guys in coverage is it 1? 2? Man free? Quarters? Rip liz match? Cloud? Put your money where your mouth is

We won't run a 3 -8 because SEC coaches will run the football with elite backs and the game is over. I can definitely get technical with you but it doesn't matter what's happening on the back end if all you have to do is put a hat on a hat. Sheer numbers in the box will get you 4/5 yards a carry.

[HancockCountyDog]

If y?all think that the man has won 11 games twice and all these awards but there is some magical defense out there that he has no answer for, you are as hardheaded as you think I am.

I want the drop 8 experts to explain it for me since it?s so great why don?t we run it? What are we getting that is giving us problems? What kind of front is it? And I do not mean just a 3 man I mean what techs? What kind of coverage is it? I do not mean just 8 guys in coverage is it 1? 2? Man free? Quarters? Rip liz match? Cloud? Put your money where your mouth is

Here is a great article where UW's coach talked about Leach's offense:

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...fensive-flash/

I know that Washington ran exclusively zone, and i know Arkansas mixed their coverage on the back end, but ran mostly cover 3 little to no man from memory.

Here is the overall point - teams that are successful against Leach rush 3 and drop 8 into some type of coverage. I don't care if its Quarters, Cloud, man, press zone, cover 2, cover 4 or even cover 6. They are dropping 8 into coverage and rushing 3. That pre-snap defensive look has caused him problems.

If you can't admit that, then we really can't discuss anything further.

[Homedawg]

Here is a great article where UW's coach talked about Leach's offense:

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...fensive-flash/

I know that Washington ran exclusively zone, and i know Arkansas mixed their coverage on the back end, but ran mostly cover 3 little to no man from memory.

Here is the overall point - teams that are successful against Leach rush 3 and drop 8 into some type of coverage. I don't care if its Quarters, Cloud, man, press zone, cover 2, cover 4 or even cover 6. They are dropping 8 into coverage and rushing 3. That pre-snap defensive look has caused him problems.

If you can't admit that, then we really can't discuss anything further.

Going off the article, if a team can rush 3 and still sack him 5 times, your probably gonna have trouble on offense. Same tend we are having.

[HoopsDawg]

Going off the article, if a team can rush 3 and still sack him 5 times, your probably gonna have trouble on offense. Same tend we are having.

That's really what you took from the article? Man, some of you guys want to believe in Leach so badly that you are either blind, deaf or dumb.

We are going to continue having trouble blocking 3 with 5 for as long as Leach is our coach b/c our OT's are one on one against Grown Men. Our receivers aren't open early b/c 8 guys are in coverage, and they are getting pressure when they rush 4 b/c no one has to play the run or respect the QB run. This issue never went away against Washington and it's not going away until Leach adapts. Leach hasn't adapted in 30 years so it's foolish to expect him to adjust now.

[Homedawg]

That's really what you took from the article? Man, some of you guys want to believe in Leach so badly that you are either blind, deaf or dumb.

We are going to continue having trouble blocking 3 with 5 for as long as Leach is our coach b/c our OT's are one on one against Grown Men. Our receivers aren't open early b/c 8 guys are in coverage, and they are getting pressure when they rush 4 b/c no one has to play the run or respect the QB run. This issue never went away against Washington and it's not going away until Leach adapts. Leach hasn't adapted in 30 years so it's foolish to expect him to adjust now.

Well it's pretty clear it said that.... the other take would be leach won't change. Which I'm well aware of and states multiple times.

[HancockCountyDog]

Going off the article, if a team can rush 3 and still sack him 5 times, your probably gonna have trouble on offense. Same tend we are having.

Yeah - but that is the point.

Unless we move conferences, we are going to face teams that can occasionally get pressure rushing 3, especially if we throw 40-50 times a game.

The SEC is known for its pass rushers. I don?t see this changing anytime soon.

Also, it?s harder to recruit elite pass blocking OL in the SEC. What we have been successful is recruiting road graders, where it?s easier to run block than pass block 40-50 times.

Look, let?s be clear, I want Leach to be successful. He is funny as hell and seems like a good dude. We also owe him a ton of money, so he isn?t going anywhere. I just want him to get back in the lab and account for the improvement in defensive talent that he is going to face moving forward. I?m genuinely hoping he does it.

[HoopsDawg]

Well it's pretty clear it said that.... the other take would be leach won't change. Which I'm well aware of and states multiple times.

So you are in agreement with me that we are screwed.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Why is every coach compared to Croom here? Leach has a track record of success and taking a couple of years to get it going. Croom was fired by the Lions as OC and never had a track record of success other than developing linebacker and running backs. The other was one of the major developers of one of the greatest offense in football history that has strains that have reached the NFL. Completely different animals. Croom was over ten years ago- you might as well compare him to Shira.

Comparing anyone to Croom is really silly. We have had some Croom type offensive performances so far, but this hasn't been the typical season either. We have a team full of guys ready to quit, no spring practice, brand new offense, no scheduled consistency etc. It has been rough sledding for Leach, but his track record makes one think that we will improve. We were still this bad in Croom's third year. Also, he was an NFL running back's coach that had no business being a head college football coach. If it doesn't work out here for Leach, he will certainly get another head coaching job somewhere. Croom never got that chance for good reason.

[Homedawg]

So you are in agreement with me that we are screwed.

I didn't like the hire when we made it. But it was due to recruiting moreso than offense. We shall see how recruiting plays out. Obviously, anyone w eyes can see at present the offense isn't working yet. But he's always won where he's been. The guy isn't stupid. He's thought of everything, trust me. Will it work here? I don't know. But we can't punt now. No way.

[Todd4State]

You do nothing but insult MSU fans here .... at what point are you willing to acknowledge Leach has some skin in these glaring issues ? .... Are you saying he has no faults or there is absolutely nothing he can do as the head coach to influence the performance NOW.... other than to run players off ?
You need to quit insulting the fans

Look, I'm sure there are things Leach could do better. He's even admitted that in his last press conference that he should have been harder on our guys to try to move them along quicker. Just like there are things that Dan and Jackie could have done better too.

BUT what's the context in this current situation?

For example- I defended Hevesy's recruiting for three or four years before it became apparent that he sucked at recruiting. That's REASONABLE because it gave him the fair opportunity to show what he could or couldn't do. I defended Dan's recruiting after the Army AA debacle for about the same amount of time.

The CONTEXT of our situation is unfortunately whether we like it or not this is indeed a rebuild and would probably be one no matter who the coach is. Fans can't sit here and say and acknowledge that there were culture and discipline issues and then when we bring in a coach- Leach- to clean it up and he does bitch about how hard he is on the players and a few leave the team because of it.

How many times did fans talk about there having to be a learning curve in the offseason- and now that we're having one some are pissed and want the coach fired? I mean- IF that's the case they're not emotionally mature enough or have the common sense to weather a rebuild and so yes- go follow another team for a couple of years.

How much evidence is out there that Leach takes a couple of years to get his players in? A lot. It's out there at two stops now. That doesn't mean that Leach will 100% work here- but what it definitely means is that our fans should at least wait two years to see instead of jumping off the bridge after six games.

And then we win the LSU game and set SEC records- but then at the first sign of trouble- the meatheads "We gotta run the ball" crowd comes out after crickets in game one. It just wreaks of agenda- and that attitude starts to permeate and then we end up getting left behind in this modern era of football while digging ourselves an even deeper and deeper hole. We've already got the "We'll never recruit the players we need" agenda brewing- all the while we have a four star QB and two four star WR's who are all out of state guys- and another in state WR that is pretty close to a four star and might be one now if it weren't for injuries.

I'm angry at some of our fans because their comments do more harm than good. I don't like the situation any more than anyone else- but I was very vocal about MSU making a mistake by not telling Dan to go to Maryland in 2015. It resulted in poor recruiting and we just stood in place as a program for two years. Those players are seniors now and I've shown how bad those classes were and we're paying for that. And then Joe hurt us tremendously and much moreso than Dan. That's why I am pointing most of my blame towards them and Stricklin and Cohen as well. Hiring Leach was the first positive step in the right direction in about five years. The offense has struggled- but the defense, special teams, and overall culture has improved already. And based on Leach's track record and the fact that our offense is mostly freshmen and sophomores that we will improve there in time as well.

[Todd4State]

Comparing anyone to Croom is really silly. We have had some Croom type offensive performances so far, but this hasn't been the typical season either. We have a team full of guys ready to quit, no spring practice, brand new offense, no scheduled consistency etc. It has been rough sledding for Leach, but his track record makes one think that we will improve. We were still this bad in Croom's third year. Also, he was an NFL running back's coach that had no business being a head college football coach. If it doesn't work out here for Leach, he will certainly get another head coaching job somewhere. Croom never got that chance for good reason.

I agree. Leach is a Hall of Fame football coach no matter what happens here. Right now I would say he is a lot more comparable to Emory Bellard. Both innovated football offense. Both took over MSU teams that had misfits on the offensive side of the ball- Bellard went 3-8 his first year and the scores were usually not pretty in 1979.