The wheels are falling off....

[Jarius]

You know all these looking at highlights of WSU games is great, but there's a few glaring problems that I see that has ZILCH to do with scheme. 1. All of the games you are pulling up are 3-4+ years into the system. 2. Maybe 1 or 2 of the players playing in any of these secondaries could play in the SEC. They simply can't cover for longer than 3-4 seconds. SEC defenses can cover all day long in zone. 3. They can block 3 with 5.

Again, it's like I said earlier it's all great that this offense has worked in the past. But it's just that, IN THE PAST. What he did with Gardner Minshew, Luke Falk, Ryan Hilinski, Anthony Gordon, Graham Harrell, Kliff Kingsbury, or BJ Symons doesn't mean jack s*** in 2020 in this league. You've got to find a way to make it work here, and so far he hasn't done that.

Vandy does not have more talent On defense than anyone in the pac 12. Leach has beaten the crap out of Arkansas, Kentucky, A&M, and Vandy Level defenses for 20 years. We all wish he would adapt to his personnel until he gets what he needs but that is not going to happen. I think it is fine to be upset with him in that regard but saying he will not Ever be able to field a competent offense against most defenses in this league is extremely premature considering his history.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Vandy does not have more talent On defense than anyone in the pac 12. Leach has beaten the crap out of Arkansas, Kentucky, A&M, and Vandy Level defenses for 20 years. We all wish he would adapt to his personnel until he gets what he needs but that is not going to happen. I think it is fine to be upset with him in that regard but saying he will not Ever be able to field a competent offense against most defenses in this league is extremely premature considering his history.

Vandy may not have more talent than anyone in the Pac 12 but they have a HC who is one of the top defensive minds in the country. So he knows how to scheme people. Just like almost every DC in this league, except apparently Bo Pelini.

And look I don't think anyone is saying that he couldn't eventually do it. But we don't have 4-5 years so that he can get his people in here. He needs to start showing signs of improvement NEXT YEAR and he needs to have a 7-8 win team by Year 3. Year 4 will be his first full recruiting class as juniors and the holdovers as seniors. That needs to be the team that can score at will on people. Also it lines up perfectly that if the schedule doesn't change we would get LSU and Bama at home in that year.

[Jarius]

Vandy’s defense is ranked 83rd in the country. They had the 97th ranked defense in the country last year. He has not schemed very well, apparently. This is year 6 for him. I agree with the rest of your post. If he does not show improvement on offense by the end of next year I will be worried.

[Ari Gold]

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom line
We dont fire a guy, we at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy won at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

[Cowbell]

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom .
We dont fire a guy or at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy win at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

I gree with this. I feel like most of us just want to see adjustments. I just think that may require him making some changes that are going to be hard for him, seeing as how he hasn't made any to this point. I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt there.

[Matt3467]

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom .
We dont fire a guy or at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy win at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

good post

[Ari Gold]

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom line
We dont fire a guy, we at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy won at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

And for those saying Leach is too hard headed to change his philosophy.. maybe he will maybe he won’t.. but who would have thought 10 years ago Saban would have changed his style and philosophy

[StarkVegasSteve]

And for those saying Leach is too hard headed to change his philosophy.. maybe he will maybe he won’t.. but who would have thought 10 years ago Saban would have changed his style and philosophy

I think the difference is there that Saban was never married to an offensive scheme due to him being a defensive coach. He knew pounding the ball between the tackles had worked for years and he had been successful with it at previous stops. He clearly saw the game passing him by and made the change. And he had been implementing parts of the spread since 2010.

Leach on the other hand is the "offensive guru" and has only ever ran one system and he's never added any variables to it. Same system for 30 years. The variables have been added by guys on the Leach coaching tree, but he's only ever ran the pure air raid. The pure air raid is all he's ever known. Personally I don't think he's ever going to change and that's why he will fail. However, I sure as hell hope I'm wrong. Like you said, never say never.

[Percho]

I think the difference is there that Saban was never married to an offensive scheme due to him being a defensive coach. He knew pounding the ball between the tackles had worked for years and he had been successful with it at previous stops. He clearly saw the game passing him by and made the change. And he had been implementing parts of the spread since 2010.

Leach on the other hand is the "offensive guru" and has only ever ran one system and he's never added any variables to it. Same system for 30 years. The variables have been added by guys on the Leach coaching tree, but he's only ever ran the pure air raid. The pure air raid is all he's ever known. Personally I don't think he's ever going to change and that's why he will fail. However, I sure as hell hope I'm wrong. Like you said, never say never.

What is the average number of running plays per game do you need, for it not to be the pure air raid?

Careful I'm going to check the history.

[StarkVegasSteve]

What is the average number of running plays per game do you need, for it not to be the pure air raid?

Careful I'm going to check the history.

Well played sir.

To answer the question though I'd say probably anywhere between 30-35 true runs would not be pure air raid. Looking at the stats it looks like Leach wants to run between 75-80 plays a ball game so I know it's a pipe dream to think we'd ever get a 50/50 split but I don't think a 60/40 or even 65/35 split is asking too much. Especially if that's what the defense is giving you. I mean I know he'll never do it but if he'd add in just a couple of zone read/RPO type plays to at least keep the D honest I think we'd at least be able to consistently move it.

[HoopsDawg]

What is the average number of running plays per game do you need, for it not to be the pure air raid?

Careful I'm going to check the history.

This year we are no. 1 in the country in passing plays per game at 77.43%. No. 2 in the country is La Monroe at only 65.05%. That is unreal and frankly ridiculous.

There is no set number of running plays needed. Lincoln Riley uses air raid principles but runs it 51% of the time.

[Homedawg]

This year we are no. 1 in the country in passing plays per game at 77.43%. No. 2 in the country is La Monroe at only 65.05%. That is unreal and frankly ridiculous.

There is no set number of running plays needed. Lincoln Riley uses air raid principles but runs it 51% of the time.

Only cb they count sacks as runs. It's a higher percentage of passes than that when you factor that in.

[Sienfield]

Only cb they count sacks as runs. It's a higher percentage of passes than that when you factor that in.

True, but that applies to every team. Every team's passing percentage would go up if the sacks were eliminated (except those without sacks).

[MedDawg]

Here is the bottom line
We dont fire a guy, we at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy won at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

Wait. Who is that coach?

Oh. Cohen? I disagree. Every single hire has generally been seen as a good hire at the time by sports journalists and other coaches. Even Cann and Moorhead.

[bulldawg28]

Well played sir.

To answer the question though I'd say probably anywhere between 30-35 true runs would not be pure air raid. Looking at the stats it looks like Leach wants to run between 75-80 plays a ball game so I know it's a pipe dream to think we'd ever get a 50/50 split but I don't think a 60/40 or even 65/35 split is asking too much. Especially if that's what the defense is giving you. I mean I know he'll never do it but if he'd add in just a couple of zone read/RPO type plays to at least keep the D honest I think we'd at least be able to consistently move it.

35% runs with those types of runs gives us 2 more wins this year

[dawgday166]

I didnt read any of these posts so if this has been said before then just move on.. but here is my quick 2 cents ..

This isnt a pro Leach post at all but lets all hit the breaks a little..
covid, no spring, no summer, limited fall, a roster that doesnt fit his offense , a transfer QB who is hurt ( I think needs TJ I dont know that just my guess) , a shitty culture and a few that had shitty attitudes, ect.....

Now saying that I never thought a CML offense would struggle and look like this. He is going to have to look in the mirror this off season and make a few adjustments.
The bright spot is defense , where we better be offering Coach Arnett a contract extension where he basically names his price.
We have lots of guys coming back on that side of the ball, and a few commits that can fill in and play quickly and a handful of possible NFL guys .

On CML side of the ball as of now 2 WR that hopefully fit his scheme and are ready with a QB that runs this offense . Also Rogers will have one more year under his belt. That should be a good battle ..
if the 2 backs stay we are solid there, just have to use them .. thats where CML has to look in the mirror and make adjustments .

This guy has won every he has been at places as hard or harder to win than MSU.. he has put numerous SKILL guys in the league . How many skill guys have we put in the league the last 20 year?? Exactly ...

if CML announces he is retiring or moving on at years end I dont think anyone would be upset. But that isnt going to happen.. so lets see what he can do in year 2 and 3 .. He will get Skill guys here .. something we haven?t been able to do over the last 20 years .. yeah there have been a few solid guys ( Bear, Ross, Bump, J Rob, Ballard, ) but what guys have we put or stayed in the league ? Quick answer none, besides Dak.. that?s where college football is now.. its offense offense offense.. and guys that are difference makers..

Here is the bottom line
We dont fire a guy, we at least give him a few years to see what he can do with a track record like Leach. The guy won at Washington State for ****s sake.. he averaged around 8 wins at TT.. I know its the Big 12 , but it was still Texas and Oklahoma when they were winning big ..

If you are screaming for someone to be fired or replaced... You have a guy with a 20 year track record of winning, compared to a guy who is in year 4 with no previous track record of success and has made very questionable hires all over the board.
We might want to start there...

And for those saying Leach is too hard headed to change his philosophy.. maybe he will maybe he won’t.. but who would have thought 10 years ago Saban would have changed his style and philosophy

Good posts. Leach ain't JoMo.

[Dawgfan77]

Could be some more news Monday. Ain't gonna be good

[CaptainObvious]

Could be some more news Monday. Ain't gonna be good

Excellent. News has been really so far in 2020.

[DownwardDawg]

Could be some more news Monday. Ain't gonna be good

Awesome! ***
2020 - the gift that keeps on giving

[R2Dawg]

And for those saying Leach is too hard headed to change his philosophy.. maybe he will maybe he won’t.. but who would have thought 10 years ago Saban would have changed his style and philosophy

One big difference. Saban cares about winning and will do anything to win. Moorhead and Leach care about doing it their way and had rather lose doing it his way than win in some other way.