I see a lot of you questioning Leach's decisions.....

[StateDawg44]

We can't realistically expect much in-game when the adjustments that need to be made right now are 5 OL blocking 3, QB making decisions faster, and WR's sitting down in the right spots. Tuning a machine isn't going to give you anything significant if it's barely running in the first place.

I completely disagree.

That's almost like saying establishing a run game doesn't open up the passing game.

I'm not saying we need to run more. I know it's not happening and that's fine.

I just don't understand how fixing even just one facet of the game wouldn't benefit a "machine". Sometimes all it takes is a little oil or a new spark plug.

[Todd4State]

I completely disagree.

The huge reach is our fans thinking it's as simple as just handing the ball off. If that was the case when we do run we would be getting 10 yard chunks every time and we aren't.

What we need to do is learn to execute the offense correctly. If our players learn how to do that we will be fine. Hell, if Costello would stop throwing interceptions we would be fine as it is.

[FISHDAWG]

The huge reach is our fans thinking it's as simple as just handing the ball off. If that was the case when we do run we would be getting 10 yard chunks every time and we aren't.

What we need to do is learn to execute the offense correctly. If our players learn how to do that we will be fine. Hell, if Costello would stop throwing interceptions we would be fine as it is.

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

[Todd4State]

That's almost like saying establishing a run game doesn't open up the passing game.

I'm not saying we need to run more. I know it's not happening and that's fine.

I just don't understand how fixing even just one facet of the game wouldn't benefit a "machine". Sometimes all it takes is a little oil or a new spark plug.

It's the precision part that he is talking about. Our receivers are not precise and their spacing sucks. They half ass routes when the ball isn't thrown their way. Osiris is probably the worst wide receiver I have ever seen as far as blocking on screens. The offensive linemen have confusion on who to block when three are rushing. That shouldn't happen. They're literally not blocking people right in front of them. Eiland has the worst feet of any offensive lineman in the SEC I have ever seen. Costello has zero field awareness and doesn't know what to do. Complete head case. Other than Costello those timing and precision things take time to master.

[Todd4State]

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

We haven't had the reps. It's not complex- it's literally a few plays. But the beauty is you rep it so much that the players master it and know every nuance of every play.

We also have players that have never had success under any coach- but now Eiland's feet are magically better and Osiris can catch the ball consistently?

[Cowbell]

The huge reach is our fans thinking it's as simple as just handing the ball off. If that was the case when we do run we would be getting 10 yard chunks every time and we aren't.

What we need to do is learn to execute the offense correctly. If our players learn how to do that we will be fine. Hell, if Costello would stop throwing interceptions we would be fine as it is.

Todd, I respect you and your take. But the problem we have right now is DCs are making it look like chess out there to our oline. LBs are not committing run or pass until the ball is snapped and then they react. Our oline is confused on who is picking up the backers when they do stunt or play run. That then puts them a step behind when they have to commit to a Down lineman. People keep saying we can't block 3 with 5, including Leach, but the problem is sometimes they bring 6-7. Leach has got to adjust to simplify things for the OL. Sure they are whiffing plenty, but it's more because they are confused than anything. That's coaching.

[ShotgunDawg]

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

We've got the wrong type of QB

[Cowbell]

We've got the wrong type of QB

Gun, he brought KJ in. If you are going to make excuses, atleast make it valid.

[FISHDAWG]

Gun, he brought KJ in. If you are going to make excuses, atleast make it valid.

No I think he's right on the wrong QB ... I will concede that if we had a spring training he would have already known this and maybe would have made a plan towards Rogers or even working in some type of sets for Schrader .... but there's not much of an excuse to just keep trotting KJ out there and just blaming the O-line. But I'm to the point of just shutting up until next year (more like next game) and seeing what benefit is realized after a spring training ... not sure I have enough patience tho to wait on recruiting

[SheltonChoked]

You said it yourself. Stanford is rushing 4 some. They are dropping 7 some. They are playing man some. That's not what teams are doing to us. They are dropping 8 nearly every play. They are playing zone every play. They are basically never blitzing.

It's true, other teams in the Pac 12 have tried the 3-8. But those teams couldn't get pressure with their 3. Also, their drops were too shallow either b/c they were dropping Dlinemen or their LB's didn't have the atheticism that the SEC teams have. It's not just the SEC dlinemen, its the LB's and extra DB's that these SEC teams have. And the SEC teams don't have to put in pass rush specialist so they can still stop the run with their Down 3 plus 1 LB.

This 3-8 scheme completely takes away all the mesh series of plays that Leach loves. It takes away all the deepr routes. Everthing has to be checked down underneath, and SEC players don't miss tackles like some of these soft Pac 12 defenses other than Washington.

The 8 man zone does not "take away the mesh play". if the 5 OL block the 3 DL, there is time for all 5 in the pattern to sit in the holes of the zone. So far, out WR have either not sat in the zone holes, or the QB has not has time due to an OL whiffing on a block. (Sharpe did it 2-3 times with a man HEAD UP on him, that's why we looked better with smith playing, he blocked the guy in front of him)

Read this link
https://www.cougcenter.com/2013/4/10...ybook-the-mesh

Mesh vs zone

The mesh concept works so well because of the stress it puts on both man, and zone defensive coverages. Shallow crossing routes are extremely difficult to guard in man coverage, not only because of the typical speed mismatch of an inside receiver on a linebacker, but also because of the sheer chaos that exists that close to the line of scrimmage. Even referee positioning comes into play because of the cluttered mass of bodies.

Mesh_triangle_medium

Zone coverage is also tested with a triangular stress. We briefly covered how a defensive zone is vertically and horizontally stressed in the first post of this Air Raid series (LINK), and Chris Brown details much more about triangle stresses here.

[SheltonChoked]

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

Besides our OL not blocking guys literally in front of them? Not much.

[HoopsDawg]

The 8 man zone does not "take away the mesh play". if the 5 OL block the 3 DL, there is time for all 5 in the pattern to sit in the holes of the zone. So far, out WR have either not sat in the zone holes, or the QB has not has time due to an OL whiffing on a block. (Sharpe did it 2-3 times with a man HEAD UP on him, that's why we looked better with smith playing, he blocked the guy in front of him)

Read this link
https://www.cougcenter.com/2013/4/10...ybook-the-mesh

Mesh vs zone

The mesh can work well vs a zone. Not an 8 man zone though. Not the way these teams are playing it. Washington gave the blue print. Barry Odom perfected it even more in our game against Arkansas. UK copied it. A&M copied it with a couple of nice wrinkles.

[Homedawg]

The mesh can work well vs a zone. Not an 8 man zone though. Not the way these teams are playing it. Washington gave the blue print. Barry Odom perfected it even more in our game against Arkansas. UK copied it. A&M copied it with a couple of nice wrinkles.

Oh it can. But against ark our wr just kept running like they were against man most of the time. And against UK and even A&M the two meshing would squat 3 yards apart. smh. It's a play that should and does work against even an 8 man drop we just didn't do it well, needless to say.

[SheltonChoked]

The mesh can work well vs a zone. Not an 8 man zone though. Not the way these teams are playing it. Washington gave the blue print. Barry Odom perfected it even more in our game against Arkansas. UK copied it. A&M copied it with a couple of nice wrinkles.

Yeah Washington, Arkansas, and A&M are the only team ever to run a 8 man zone vs a leach coached team. In 20 years. I forgot*****

If you really think that you should stick to hoops.

[HoopsDawg]

Yeah Washington, Arkansas, and A&M are the only team ever to run a 8 man zone vs a leach coached team. In 20 years. I forgot*****

If you really think that you should stick to hoops.

I want Leach to succeed. I'm not pulling against him. What I am telling you, is that if Leach doesn't adapt, he will not succeed at MSU.

One defense is shutting us down whether you want to admit it or not. Teams wouldn't run this against Art Briles, Dana Holgerson, other guys on the Leach tree. They would run the hell out of the ball. Leach hasn't adjusted and teams have caught up.

So what can he do? Go to traditonal line splits. Use a Mobile QB (Will) to run it a little. Add in a couple of varities to the run game like he did with the toss. Can't just run the draw and inside zone. Need some diversity with the runs and the run blocking. Adapt or just keep doing the same thing and blaming execution. I promise you the result will be 2-8 or 3-7 at best.

And we aren't killing it on the recruiting trail with Olinemen. This is going to be a problem for his entire tenure unless he adjusts. I believe he will. I just haven't seen it yet.

[HoopsDawg]

Oh it can. But against ark our wr just kept running like they were against man most of the time. And against UK and even A&M the two meshing would squat 3 yards apart. smh. It's a play that should and does work against even an 8 man drop we just didn't do it well, needless to say.

I'm sure we can execute better. We will probably get better personnel especially at WR. Of cours we will never have the perfect personnel. Let me ask you a question, is there another coach in colllege football that would attack a 3-8, cover 2 rolling back to cover 3 zone, by throwing the ball 60 times other than Leach?

[SheltonChoked]

I want Leach to succeed. I'm not pulling against him. What I am telling you, is that if Leach doesn't adapt, he will not succeed at MSU.

One defense is shutting us down whether you want to admit it or not. Teams wouldn't run this against Art Briles, Dana Holgerson, other guys on the Leach tree. They would run the hell out of the ball. Leach hasn't adjusted and teams have caught up.

So what can he do? Go to traditonal line splits. Use a Mobile QB (Will) to run it a little. Add in a couple of varities to the run game like he did with the toss. Can't just run the draw and inside zone. Need some diversity with the runs and the run blocking. Adapt or just keep doing the same thing and blaming execution. I promise you the result will be 2-8 or 3-7 at best.

And we aren't killing it on the recruiting trail with Olinemen. This is going to be a problem for his entire tenure unless he adjusts. I believe he will. I just haven't seen it yet.

I think Leach will succeed at MSU. He has everywhere else, with less talent, since 1997.
And since 1997, teams have used a 3 man rush 8 man zone vs a leach air raid.

Leach has won 2/3rds of his games over 18 years as a power 5 head coach, This is not Croom or JOMO with 0 years as a head coach.

And if our line is not blocking the front 3, You think the OL will magically be able to block 5 on a running play? Running the ball will not do shit either if we don't block.

Stick to hoops.

[LC Dawg]

As it's been stated on here a number of times it's not 5 blocking 3. Our tackles are going one-on-one with SEC defensive ends and they are consistently losing.
Mullen's offense often covered up the fact that we did not have top level SEC offensive tackles. I'm not sure we can recruit the tackles we need to consistently pass block SEC defensive ends one-on-one when the ends know we are throwing the ball. There aren't many of those type tackles available.
If Leach can make this happen without changing his offense then more power to him but it looks like he may have to change things up a little. Time will tell. We don't really have a choice but to sit back and see what happens.

[vindastra]

Todd, I respect you and your take. But the problem we have right now is DCs are making it look like chess out there to our oline. LBs are not committing run or pass until the ball is snapped and then they react. Our oline is confused on who is picking up the backers when they do stunt or play run. That then puts them a step behind when they have to commit to a Down lineman. People keep saying we can't block 3 with 5, including Leach, but the problem is sometimes they bring 6-7. Leach has got to adjust to simplify things for the OL. Sure they are whiffing plenty, but it's more because they are confused than anything. That's coaching.

Wouldn't Arnett do the same in our practices? All info points to KJ being awesome in practice.

[Hot Rock]

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

Nothing changed, we just didn't understand one very important point.

The offense is simple to understand with only a few plays but it is not simple to execute.

In order for this offense to be successful they have all be on the same page and they simply are not. We did not understand how much missing spring meant, no summer workouts etc... On any given play, we may only have two WR's running the correct routes properly.

I hope to see progress in all aspects by the end of the year. Wins and losses mean little to me at this point but seeing improved execution levels will. Lord knows I hope the line gets better at what they are doing. Who knows, we still might win a few more.