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Thread: Quick Thoughts On What is Going on With Our Football Program

  1. #61
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Last edited by ShotgunDawg; 10-28-2020 at 01:20 PM.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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    Quote Originally Posted by PendingTransaction View Post
    Honestly, I think Leach's scheme is a relic. I think his coaching style and tact will not fly with southern players. Even worse, I don't think he has the capacity to alter either enough to run a successful program here.

    And for God's sakes, please stop with the fallacy that he is going to miraculously recruit all of these salt of the earth, SEC caliber players. Where are they...at the MAIS Christian Academies? After the next three "disastrous air raid shows" there will be more attrition and possibly some big decommits.
    Southern players? Not sure what you mean here, please elaborate, but maybe like Texas? Where 90% of his Texas tech players were from.

  3. #63
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Southern players? Not sure what you mean here, please elaborate, but maybe like Texas? Where 90% of his Texas tech players were from.
    yeah. His post makes no sense.

    We have real Leach haters, which is fine, that will abandon all logic to make a point, which is not fine.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Southern players? Not sure what you mean here, please elaborate, but maybe like Texas? Where 90% of his Texas tech players were from.
    I mean the areas were MSU gets 90% of its players, and it ain't Texas. You know like nearly 50% of the incoming class will come from MS.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    yeah. His post makes no sense.

    We have real Leach haters, which is fine, that will abandon all logic to make a point, which is not fine.
    I think the question is whether leach can get enough of his guys (disciplined, team first, no weed) that are also sec caliber athletes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PendingTransaction View Post
    I mean the areas were MSU gets 90% of its players, and it ain't Texas. You know like nearly 50% of the incoming class will come from MS.
    Are you saying Texas players are not southern players but MS players are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Surprisingly there's still a lot of kids out there who want to be coached hard. Just have to find them, but when you do get those type players you have players that are 100% bought in.
    I agree 100% - I have always felt that this is part of the reason For Sabans success. He filters through the 4 & 5 stars who have the right attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Are you saying Texas players are not southern players but MS players are?
    Not really following this back and forth but Texas high school players are 100% not MS, LA, AL, GA players. Total different style and total different atmospheres.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    I agree 100% - I have always felt that this is part of the reason For Sabans success. He filters through the 4 & 5 stars who have the right attitude.
    That's the recipe...Leach needs to filter through the 4 & 5 stars and get the ones with the right attitude. In 2023 we will win the Natty!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    I agree 100% - I have always felt that this is part of the reason For Sabans success. He filters through the 4 & 5 stars who have the right attitude.
    Vs Butch Jones at TN who got top 15 classes all the time, but produced no on field results or draft picks because they were the kinds of 4*s other programs dropped after seeing they didn't have what it takes mentally

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Norman Dale has come to town. Give it time...

    What made Mullen's program special was culture. To win big, we've got to reset that.

    I realize it feels like a toe nail is currently being extracted from your body, but to build the program & team we want, it's necessary. This is a way way bigger deal than our scheme.


    Norman Dale did it in one season, and we already had the football program we could have ever hoped for before Cohen started hiring people. This notion that we're going to tear it all down and build it back up into something even better than it was under Mullen is completely ludicrous. This is the SEC, and we don't recruit well enough for that. We already had the foundation and the philosophy that suited our program best, and we threw it away.
    Last edited by ArrowDawg; 10-28-2020 at 02:19 PM.

  12. #72
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    You can talk recruiting and who the "real South" is all you want. It doesn't make one 17 of a difference because here's the simple facts, winning solves all problems. Dan was an ass to 95% of our players, but they'd go to war for him. Hev was an ass to 100% of our players but they'd run through a brick wall for him. Program toughness and pride is what we had under Dan and what we lost under Joe. He might've been a likable guy, but he was a HORRENDOUS HC and program CEO. Leach is trying to bring that back and I applaud him for that. Will it work? Who the hell knows, but I can guarandamntee you another 2 to 3 years of Moorhead would've had cultural problems that make what we're going through now a cakewalk. I'm on record as saying I don't think the pure air raid can work, but that's a discussion for another time and a year from now. Right now, the discussion needs to be who are going to be the leaders on our team. I've heard too many stories to count of the lax program attitude under Moorhead, enough to make you physically ill. I haven't heard any of that under Mike. Look, if there's fans that want to jump ship then that is completely fine. I, along with many others, were here before the Dan Mullen bandwagon fans came aboard, we'll be here after they're gone, and we'll still be here when they try to rejoin us. Whether that be with Leach or another coach.

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    There is no secret sauce for most college teams - you can take a few chances and maybe they pan out and maybe they don’t. Dontae Jones helped us get to a final 4 but he would have never lasted if he had come in as a freshman and barely made it through his one year here.

    But you can’t have a lot of those types or you have what Jackie and Stans had at the end of their tenure. The trouble is finding enough guys that are quality people and quality athletes that you can get to Starkville. That’s the hard part and I think was a huge reason Mullen was so eager to get out.

  14. #74
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArrowDawg View Post
    Norman Dale did it in one season, and we already had the football program we could have ever hoped for before Cohen started hiring people. This notion that we're going to tear it all down and build it back up into something even better than it was under Mullen is completely ludicrous. This is the SEC, and we don't recruit well enough for that. We already had the foundation and the philosophy that suited our program best, and we threw it away.
    I don't disagree that Cohen is to blame for most of this, but Leach didn't turn the team culture into a dumpster fire. He's just having to work with what he's got.

    We've all blamed Cohen ad nauseum for the Moorhead hire, but at some point you just realize that there is nothing more we can do about it. What's done is done and now we only can worry about what to do next. And next has to be cleaning up the mess, which involves throwing out the trash
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irondawg View Post
    There is no secret sauce for most college teams - you can take a few chances and maybe they pan out and maybe they don’t. Dontae Jones helped us get to a final 4 but he would have never lasted if he had come in as a freshman and barely made it through his one year here.

    But you can’t have a lot of those types or you have what Jackie and Stans had at the end of their tenure. The trouble is finding enough guys that are quality people and quality athletes that you can get to Starkville. That’s the hard part and I think was a huge reason Mullen was so eager to get out.
    I agree, no Doubt DM doesn't have to work as hard as he did in Florida as Msu. We will and we have won since we hired JWS, but it's a up and down thing winning at StarkVegas.

    I just hope Leach will work hard and recruit "his players". I think it's harder to win at Msu than TT and WSU, because of the conference is much tougher and way more passionate than those other two conferences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    Vs Butch Jones at TN who got top 15 classes all the time, but produced no on field results or draft picks because they were the kinds of 4*s other programs dropped after seeing they didn't have what it takes mentally
    Yep - add Texas And USC to that list as well

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    You can talk recruiting and who the "real South" is all you want. It doesn't make one 17 of a difference because here's the simple facts, winning solves all problems. Dan was an ass to 95% of our players, but they'd go to war for him. Hev was an ass to 100% of our players but they'd run through a brick wall for him. Program toughness and pride is what we had under Dan and what we lost under Joe. He might've been a likable guy, but he was a HORRENDOUS HC and program CEO. Leach is trying to bring that back and I applaud him for that. Will it work? Who the hell knows, but I can guarandamntee you another 2 to 3 years of Moorhead would've had cultural problems that make what we're going through now a cakewalk. I'm on record as saying I don't think the pure air raid can work, but that's a discussion for another time and a year from now. Right now, the discussion needs to be who are going to be the leaders on our team. I've heard too many stories to count of the lax program attitude under Moorhead, enough to make you physically ill. I haven't heard any of that under Mike. Look, if there's fans that want to jump ship then that is completely fine. I, along with many others, were here before the Dan Mullen bandwagon fans came aboard, we'll be here after they're gone, and we'll still be here when they try to rejoin us. Whether that be with Leach or another coach.
    This is an outstanding post. 100% agree.

    Leach didn't cause this. He's just having to clean it up
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  18. #78
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    LOL at the people wanting us to be a program that "our players like" who probably also railed Joe for a lack of discipline. Which was the result of him trying to have a program that our players liked.

    Some of our issues on offense are discipline/sloppiness related- the WR's in particular.

    Also- LOL at the people that think that we won't recruit Mississippi well just by looking at the rankings this year and the ins that we have for the class of 2022 already.

    Some of our fans are so bad about talking out of both sides of their mouth. "We want a disciplined hard working team! But we want to the players to have fun all the time and Leach is wrong for kicking players off the team that don't follow the rules!"

    This is the exact same shit from our fans that happened with Cohen as the baseball coach. The year before we hired Cohen "Our team is soft!" And then we hire Cohen "I don't like how he cusses at our players and he bunts too much."

    The ONLY thing I have ever figured out about MSU fans is they want the exact OPPOSITE of whatever it is that MSU has at that moment. It seems like all of our fans want is some quick fix where the coach calls some cute play- but involving a QB run of course- otherwise that's going to get bitched about- to get us to the Liberty Bowl.

    And before the "But....but....but Arkansas and Kentucky!" posts come- Arkansas had literally nowhere to go but up. They had completely turned on Morris- so of course they had nowhere to go but up. Beating us is about like beating Alabama for MSU. Stoops has been at UK for years and he has had several good teams now. Them beating us in Lexington shouldn't be a surprise since we haven't won there since 2014.

    In the offseason we had fans like "I know there is going to be an adjustment". We have Leach's track record at Texas Tech and Wazzu to show that there is an adjustment period. AND YET we still have idiot stupid ass fans like "I don't know about this".

  19. #79
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    LOL at the people wanting us to be a program that "our players like" who probably also railed Joe for a lack of discipline. Which was the result of him trying to have a program that our players liked.

    Some of our issues on offense are discipline/sloppiness related- the WR's in particular.

    Also- LOL at the people that think that we won't recruit Mississippi well just by looking at the rankings this year and the ins that we have for the class of 2022 already.

    Some of our fans are so bad about talking out of both sides of their mouth. "We want a disciplined hard working team! But we want to the players to have fun all the time and Leach is wrong for kicking players off the team that don't follow the rules!"

    This is the exact same shit from our fans that happened with Cohen as the baseball coach. The year before we hired Cohen "Our team is soft!" And then we hire Cohen "I don't like how he cusses at our players and he bunts too much."

    The ONLY thing I have ever figured out about MSU fans is they want the exact OPPOSITE of whatever it is that MSU has at that moment. It seems like all of our fans want is some quick fix where the coach calls some cute play- but involving a QB run of course- otherwise that's going to get bitched about- to get us to the Liberty Bowl.

    And before the "But....but....but Arkansas and Kentucky!" posts come- Arkansas had literally nowhere to go but up. They had completely turned on Morris- so of course they had nowhere to go but up. Beating us is about like beating Alabama for MSU. Stoops has been at UK for years and he has had several good teams now. Them beating us in Lexington shouldn't be a surprise since we haven't won there since 2014.

    In the offseason we had fans like "I know there is going to be an adjustment". We have Leach's track record at Texas Tech and Wazzu to show that there is an adjustment period. AND YET we still have idiot stupid ass fans like "I don't know about this".
    MSU fans just want a good meal, but most have no idea how it's cooked.

    Can't blame them. Unless you've played or been a part of a sport at a high level, how would you know?
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  20. #80
    Senior Member LC Dawg's Avatar
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    Does Leach really suspend or kick off players for failing one drug test? Has he done this at other stops?

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