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Thread: College Football is a Terrible Product

  1. #61
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    100% agree, but there is a crisis on the horizon.

    When sports fans see professional sports that have good games, competitive divisions, etc they are going to slowly and surely migrate to those sports and abandon their passion for college football.

    Until 10-15 years ago, college football could get away with the current set-up because recruiting rankings didn't exist and people were largely ignorant to the talent discrepancy between teams. However, now that people can easily google the lack of talent distribution, it's highlighted what a waste of time and money the sport is. 90+% of power 5 teams literally have absolutely NO SHOT at winning anything other than a meaningless bowl game.

    To save the sport, something has to be done.
    As an example, we are a 33 point underdog to Bama this weekend. I am a diehard MSU fan but I seriously don't even know if I will take out any time Saturday evening to watch this game. What's the point other than to maybe see how some of our individual players play?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    100% agree, but there is a crisis on the horizon.

    When sports fans see professional sports that have good games, competitive divisions, etc they are going to slowly and surely migrate to those sports and abandon their passion for college football.

    Until 10-15 years ago, college football could get away with the current set-up because recruiting rankings didn't exist and people were largely ignorant to the talent discrepancy between teams. However, now that people can easily google the lack of talent distribution, it's highlighted what a waste of time and money the sport is. 90+% of power 5 teams literally have absolutely NO SHOT at winning anything other than a meaningless bowl game.

    To save the sport, something has to be done.
    Exactly right, HUDL is great for the kids but horrible for the sport; Bama's recruiting analysts can sit on their ass and watch every highlight of every kid that wants to play in college. Much easier to find elite athletes or raw gems than pre-highlight videos being online

  3. #63
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    As an example, we are a 33 point underdog to Bama this weekend. I am a diehard MSU fan but I seriously don't even know if I will take out any time Saturday evening to watch this game. What's the point other than to maybe see how some of our individual players play?
    100% agree. Thing is: it's not just an MSU problem. Alabama has averaged beating a blue blood Tennessee by 27+ points over the past 14 years. That's absurd and absolutely awful for the sport.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    Exactly right, HUDL is great for the kids but horrible for the sport; Bama's recruiting analysts can sit on their ass and watch every highlight of every kid that wants to play in college. Much easier to find elite athletes or raw gems than pre-highlight videos being online
    Absolutely correct. Additionally, as if we needed anymore additions, the national combines bring all these 4 and 5 star guys together and allow them to become friends, which leads to even more of them attending the same schools.

    We've just got to find a better way. Many people are completely against scholarship reductions due the role they occupy in helping kids to go to college that may not have been able to any other way. I get that and am completely open to hearing and considering alternative options other than cutting scholarships, but keeping the status quo is not one of them.

    Something has to be done or we are going to absolutely destroy the sport. For the good of the long term health of the sport, reform has to happen. It can't survive like this.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    The revenue from the sport has exploded though, so until there's a financial hit, there's no problem in the powers that be eyes.

  6. #66
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    The revenue from the sport has exploded though, so until there's a financial hit, there's no problem in the powers that be eyes.
    I think there is about to be a financial hit. I think COVID has dropped the curtain on the issues. There's certainly about to be an attendance hit once things open back up.

    We live in a progressive society, where even conservatives like myself have progressed far more than we realize over the past decade, and it's highlighted the lack of progressiveness in college football IMO.

    I'm a capitalist at heart, but capitalism without some government control, leads to too many haves and have nots. The NCAA's rules in this case are the government and more regulation is needed.
    Last edited by ShotgunDawg; 10-26-2020 at 09:51 AM.
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  7. #67
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    I think there is about to be a financial hit. I think COVID has dropped the curtain on the issues. There's certainly about to be an attendance hit once things open back up.

    We live in a progressive society, where even conservatives like myself have progressed far more than we realize over the past decade, and it's highlighted the lack of progressiveness in college football IMO.

    I'm a capitalist at heart, but capitalism without some government control, leads to too many haves and have nots.
    I just find it humorous that Saban basically failed at his only job (Miami Dolphins) where he coached in a league where everyone basically has a chance at obtaining equal talent. He quickly realized that wasn't the gig for him.

  8. #68
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    I just find it humorous that Saban basically failed at his only job (Miami Dolphins) where he coached in a league where everyone basically has a chance at obtaining equal talent. He quickly realized that wasn't the gig for him.
    Absolutely and he was smart to get out.

    The system needs to be fixed and the quicker the sport fixes it, the quicker it'll grown & secure the long term health of the sport
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  9. #69
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    I just find it humorous that Saban basically failed at his only job (Miami Dolphins) where he coached in a league where everyone basically has a chance at obtaining equal talent. He quickly realized that wasn't the gig for him.
    9-7 and 6-10 for 15-17 overall record. There's a lot of coaches that are still coaching in the league with WAY WORSE records than that. Also people forget that Saban was a hell of a DC under Belichick. He left the Dolphins because instead of listening to him and signing Brees, they instead opted to sign Daunte Culpepper. Saban got mad, so he met with Mal Moore and he made him a home run offer. Amazing that one decision altered two franchises as much as it did. The Dolphins have made the playoffs twice since that decision and Brees has led the Saints to a Super Bowl, 3 NFC Championship games, and 8 playoff appearances.

  10. #70
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    9-7 and 6-10 for 15-17 overall record. There's a lot of coaches that are still coaching in the league with WAY WORSE records than that. Also people forget that Saban was a hell of a DC under Belichick. He left the Dolphins because instead of listening to him and signing Brees, they instead opted to sign Daunte Culpepper. Saban got mad, so he met with Mal Moore and he made him a home run offer. Amazing that one decision altered two franchises as much as it did. The Dolphins have made the playoffs twice since that decision and Brees has led the Saints to a Super Bowl, 3 NFC Championship games, and 8 playoff appearances.
    Would Brees have been the same player with Sean Payton? I think brees would be good with anyone, but not sure he's great without Sean. Sean and Brees were a perfect marriage

  11. #71
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    9-7 and 6-10 for 15-17 overall record. There's a lot of coaches that are still coaching in the league with WAY WORSE records than that. Also people forget that Saban was a hell of a DC under Belichick. He left the Dolphins because instead of listening to him and signing Brees, they instead opted to sign Daunte Culpepper. Saban got mad, so he met with Mal Moore and he made him a home run offer. Amazing that one decision altered two franchises as much as it did. The Dolphins have made the playoffs twice since that decision and Brees has led the Saints to a Super Bowl, 3 NFC Championship games, and 8 playoff appearances.
    Man, are you like Saban's relative or something to give that diatribe on all the reasons why he was 15-17 in the NFL? Nobody is saying Saban isn't a good coach, he obviously is, but he certainly likes coaching in a situation where he just has way more talent than most every team he plays. I guess most coaches do.

  12. #72
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Would Brees have been the same player with Sean Payton? I think brees would be good with anyone, but not sure he's great without Sean. Sean and Brees were a perfect marriage
    I think it brings up the question of would Brees have convinced Saban to embrace the spread in 06 rather than at Bama in 14. I agree that it worked out better for Brees to be with Sean in NOLA, but I've always been fascinated by the dominos that one move caused.

  13. #73
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    Man, are you like Saban's relative or something to give that diatribe on all the reasons why he was 15-17 in the NFL? Nobody is saying Saban isn't a good coach, he obviously is, but he certainly likes coaching in a situation where he just has way more talent than most every team he plays. I guess most coaches do.
    Yep that's it. I'm Saban's relative. And he gave me some insight on what they're gonna do this weekend, they're gonna be revolutionary and only play defense. They'll immediately punt if they get the ball on offense. He feels like his D can score 3 to 4 TDs with Costello at the helm.

  14. #74
    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Only playing 2-3 tough games a year allows you to build a winning culture.
    I have to disagree. even if you limit to 60 players then that just means that Bama gets to play everyone that they usually play, it wouldn't affect the quality of player that they receive, and teams like State would not be affected either in helping bridge the gap, it might help us in the aspect that Bama could only take in so many. All it would do is affect the depth of the quality of player they have. Honestly I see lowering the scholarships hurting more than helping because you have less individuals to practice against thus more injuries would occur.

  15. #75
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick91 View Post
    I have to disagree. even if you limit to 60 players then that just means that Bama gets to play everyone that they usually play, it wouldn't affect the quality of player that they receive, and teams like State would not be affected either in helping bridge the gap, it might help us in the aspect that Bama could only take in so many. All it would do is affect the depth of the quality of player they have. Honestly I see lowering the scholarships hurting more than helping because you have less individuals to practice against thus more injuries would occur.
    So very wrong. It would spread out more of the elite talent and Bama would have to play with who they sign rather than signing more than they need and then processing the ones they sign that don't cut it. This has been gone over ad nauseum. And its been discussed over and over that the elite will continue to be the elite, its all a matter of closing the competitive gap to make college football a better overall product which it would absolutely do.
    Last edited by maroonmania; 10-26-2020 at 10:40 AM.

  16. #76
    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    I think there is about to be a financial hit. I think COVID has dropped the curtain on the issues. There's certainly about to be an attendance hit once things open back up.

    We live in a progressive society, where even conservatives like myself have progressed far more than we realize over the past decade, and it's highlighted the lack of progressiveness in college football IMO.

    I'm a capitalist at heart, but capitalism without some government control, leads to too many haves and have nots. The NCAA's rules in this case are the government and more regulation is needed.
    I don't think more regulation is needed. I think the regulation they have handed down has been in favor of the current power teams. They need to rethink the regulations that have taken place because those regulations have been what has hindered the progress of the sport becoming more relevant and competitive.

  17. #77
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick91 View Post
    I have to disagree. even if you limit to 60 players then that just means that Bama gets to play everyone that they usually play, it wouldn't affect the quality of player that they receive, and teams like State would not be affected either in helping bridge the gap, it might help us in the aspect that Bama could only take in so many. All it would do is affect the depth of the quality of player they have. Honestly I see lowering the scholarships hurting more than helping because you have less individuals to practice against thus more injuries would occur.
    I disagree completely. Lowering scholarships would massively narrow the field. Misevaluations would be major problems whereas now 3-5 teams can cover them up.

    Initially, your correct in that Bama would get the same level player but over the years, as the best coaches were truly recognized due to more narrow talent levels, different schools would begin to emerge as real contenders.
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  18. #78
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick91 View Post
    I don't think more regulation is needed. I think the regulation they have handed down has been in favor of the current power teams. They need to rethink the regulations that have taken place because those regulations have been what has hindered the progress of the sport becoming more relevant and competitive.
    Do you not pay attention to college football?

    How could you possibly say that no more regulation needed? You enjoy 48-14 games?
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  19. #79
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    When Bama and sometimes UGA and LSU aren’t playing SEC football is awesome because the talent levels between team 4 and team 13 are close enough that the game almost always goes to the 4th quarter. We need more of that with games that actually matter. Currently all the good games are exhibition games.
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  20. #80
    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    So very wrong. It would spread out more of the elite talent and Bama would have to play with who they sign rather than signing more than they need and then processing the ones they sign that don't cut it. This has been gone over ad nauseum. And its been discussed over and over that the elite will continue to be the elite, its all a matter of closing the competitive gap to make college football a better overall product which it would absolutely do.
    I don't disagree with what you are saying. I am saying that I think cutting scholarships is not the best way to do it. I know people don't like star power, but, it is a thing. Bama wouldn't be Bama if they didn't have all the 4 and 5 star recruits that they have. As a former college athlete cutting the amount of scholarships I don't like. It limits the amount of diamonds in the rough that are found, it would affect practice top to bottom how they are planed and implemented, I do believe injuries would rise because players would be taking way more reps than usual, and it does inhibit kids from getting a solid education that they probably otherwise wouldn't have received. Also, please note that the NFL can limit rosters to 53 because it is the players job to be fit. College they are "students" first the level of fitness isn't even close. So, being able to keep up with less bodies for each program would suck in my humble opinion.

    I am way more open to putting a cap of number of 4 and 5 star recruits that can be recruited either during each recruiting cycle, or at one time can be on a team. Teams would have to spend way more time evaluating players, would give lower graded players a higher shot of being noticed, and I think the diamonds would be seen way more than usual, and you aren't cutting away from kids being able to get an education that otherwise couldn't or wouldn't.

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