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  1. #21
    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Game planning by our opposites has been pretty simple. With no running game and mostly all short passes, the defense just stays zone and keep everything in front of you. We also are a very slow footed in the O Line and not very talented. It's just the simple and for those thinking and saying it has to be our guys our confused, well then just say they aren't very smart. A 3 man rush against a 5 man line with no run game is killing Msu and will continue. Let's hope, wish, pray JoMoSlyEmoryThe Memory will quit being hard headed and change his offense to win games instead of "well it worked in the past". Things change in sports as well as in our society.
    No excuses, 10 inceptions and have we rushed for a 100 yards total yet?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by basedog View Post
    Game planning by our opposites has been pretty simple. With no running game and mostly all short passes, the defense just stays zone and keep everything in front of you. We also are a very slow footed in the O Line and not very talented. It's just the simple and for those thinking and saying it has to be our guys our confused, well then just say they aren't very smart. A 3 man rush against a 5 man line with no run game is killing Msu and will continue. Let's hope, wish, pray JoMoSlyEmoryThe Memory will quit being hard headed and change his offense to win games instead of "well it worked in the past". Things change in sports as well as in our society.
    No excuses, 10 inceptions and have we rushed for a 100 yards total yet?
    We are averaging 28.5 yards a game rushing, so just barely.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by defiantdog View Post
    The center (no matter who it is) keeps missing the guy in front of him. I don't think our interior guys know how to block one on one. They're confused on who to pick up.
    There were several plays that made me wonder if the OLine hates KJ, particularly the center. I can see it being hard to block while snapping, but a couple of times it's like he didn't even get his hands up before the DL was past him.

  4. #24
    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson85 View Post
    There were several plays that made me wonder if the OLine hates KJ, particularly the center. I can see it being hard to block while snapping, but a couple of times it's like he didn't even get his hands up before the DL was past him.
    I'd say no to hate, even if they did and still aren't doing there job then why isn't that guy pulled and play someone with effort.

  5. #25
    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluelightstar View Post
    We are averaging 28.5 yards a game rushing, so just barely.
    Got to be last in the country, and folks wonder what the problem could be? It ain't rocket science especially when you have a play book that is 3"x5" and you can hide in your hand. How difficult can game planning be for a DC? We making other Sec teams defenses like the 70's "Steel Curtain".

    Btw, I ain't saying fire Leach, just saying he needs to change.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    I really don?t think it?s this simple.
    We can make it more complicated.

    I really think you should go and watch a few Wazzu games on YouTube. It was eye opening to me. Their guys out of the backfield made LBs and DBs look silly.

    Teams came out of the 3-8 a ton because they couldn?t tackle guys one on one and we?re getting trashed by the check down guys.

    Maybe it?s a talent issue for us on offense, but I think we have some solid RBs.

    I also think we haven?t recruited the right OL for this offense. That is causing us problems all over the offense. SEC teams can get pressure rushing 3. The DL are simply too good and our guys aren?t built to pass block 70 times a game.

    Maybe it?s just an adjustment we have to go through, it?s just hard to watch. Hopefully Rogers will give the team a boost and the offense gets better.

  7. #27
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basedog View Post
    Game planning by our opposites has been pretty simple. With no running game and mostly all short passes, the defense just stays zone and keep everything in front of you. We also are a very slow footed in the O Line and not very talented. It's just the simple and for those thinking and saying it has to be our guys our confused, well then just say they aren't very smart. A 3 man rush against a 5 man line with no run game is killing Msu and will continue. Let's hope, wish, pray JoMoSlyEmoryThe Memory will quit being hard headed and change his offense to win games instead of "well it worked in the past". Things change in sports as well as in our society.
    No excuses, 10 inceptions and have we rushed for a 100 yards total yet?
    Yes, the defenses we are facing are working to keep things in front of them but if you watch the game, all 11 defenders, while in a zone, are still ALL lined up within 10-12 yards of the LOS. That is why I vehemently disagree with C34's assertion that we are facing prevent defenses. We are not, we are facing all out zone defenses that are not really giving up underneath stuff either. Its why on the check down passes there are 2 or 3 defenders there waiting to make the hit when we throw a bubble screen to a WR or a pass to the RB coming out of the backfield. Heck, its why we see 5 or 6 defenders right in the tackle box immediately once the defense sees its going to be a run. The tight zone we are playing against would allow you to possibly throw over the top of it but you can't do that when your QB is getting 3 seconds max to throw the ball. In fact, its gotten worse, as Arkansas did play more of a spread out deeper zone. But KY came in tighter than that and so did TA&M. Until we show we can protect, defenses aren't going to have to worry much about the deep patterns and can cram us on runs and short passes without worrying about getting burned.
    Last edited by maroonmania; 10-19-2020 at 09:09 AM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog View Post
    We can make it more complicated.

    I really think you should go and watch a few Wazzu games on YouTube. It was eye opening to me. Their guys out of the backfield made LBs and DBs look silly.

    Teams came out of the 3-8 a ton because they couldn?t tackle guys one on one and we?re getting trashed by the check down guys.
    This is what people dont seem to understand. Thats not going to happen in the SEC.
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluelightstar View Post
    I saw a national cfb guy point out that our most recent games were basically like watching the last 7 Apple Cups. Everybody is saying he will figure it out but he never figured out how to crack that defense with SEC-type athletes in nearly a decade.
    why people reference the Apple Cup is crazy to me. You cannot compare the level of athletes Washington Huskies had with what Leech had. They just weren't the same.

    Huskies recruiting level was on par with most SEC teams. They had enough talent to compete in the national title conversation a couple of those years.

    Wash St got non-rated players and two star guys. Hell, one year he only got 5 rated players to campus or something like that.

    This thing may not work out but it won't because Wash had some secret formula. It's simple, if you can't block 3 & 4 with 5 O-ine, we lose.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Rock View Post
    why people reference the Apple Cup is crazy to me. You cannot compare the level of athletes Washington Huskies had with what Leech had. They just weren't the same.

    Huskies recruiting level was on par with most SEC teams. They had enough talent to compete in the national title conversation a couple of those years.

    Wash St got non-rated players and two star guys. Hell, one year he only got 5 rated players to campus or something like that.

    This thing may not work out but it won't because Wash had some secret formula. It's simple, if you can't block 3 & 4 with 5 O-ine, we lose.
    You can't compare the level of athletes we've got to AL either.

  11. #31
    Senior Member DownwardDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    This is what people dont seem to understand. Thats not going to happen in the SEC.
    I keep reading this, and I've heard people say this for years, but I keep watching SEC teams get their asses beat in bowl games and playoffs every year. I'm not buying it's that simple. I bet your ass Leach's teams have faced defenses much better than Kentucky, Arkansas, and aTm. Not better than Georgia, Bama, etc... but you get the point.

    I ain't sayin his offense will work or not. I have no idea. But there's an awful lot of assumptions right now.

  12. #32
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownwardDawg View Post
    I keep reading this, and I've heard people say this for years, but I keep watching SEC teams get their asses beat in bowl games and playoffs every year. I'm not buying it's that simple. I bet your ass Leach's teams have faced defenses much better than Kentucky, Arkansas, and aTm. Not better than Georgia, Bama, etc... but you get the point.

    I ain't sayin his offense will work or not. I have no idea. But there's an awful lot of assumptions right now.
    This
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownwardDawg View Post
    I keep reading this, and I've heard people say this for years, but I keep watching SEC teams get their asses beat in bowl games and playoffs every year. I'm not buying it's that simple. I bet your ass Leach's teams have faced defenses much better than Kentucky, Arkansas, and aTm. Not better than Georgia, Bama, etc... but you get the point.

    I ain't sayin his offense will work or not. I have no idea. But there's an awful lot of assumptions right now.
    Huge difference in playing people in opening games with the offseason to get ready, or in bowl games with a month to get ready- than it is lining up and playing week after week against the SEC. Some guys could care less about the bowl game and party all week before the game.
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoopsDawg View Post
    There aren't many calls for the center to make. Arkansas and UK were very vanilla with their 3 man front. A&M did a couple of different things, but again it's a very basic 3 man front for the most part. So you are reaching looking for an excuse. I don't blame you.

    And Shotgun, I fear that Leach is thinking exactly like you, "It's just an execution issue, nothing else." Croom said the same and Moorhead said the same. There's nothing wrong with the scheme, we just have to execute better. That's coach speak for "my system is great, I'm not changing a thing".
    Leach has said the poor execution multiple times. I said other day this will go on for years until he realizes or starts to that it may not work here like it has everywhere else. I'm not sure he will ever admit it. He has 20 years he has convinced himself that this is the best O ever. Oh, we'll get better and win some games down the road but I'm not sure he will ever be what he was in the past here due to SEC speed.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2Dawg View Post
    Leach has said the poor execution multiple times. I said other day this will go on for years until he realizes or starts to that it may not work here like it has everywhere else. I'm not sure he will ever admit it. He has 20 years he has convinced himself that this is the best O ever. Oh, we'll get better and win some games down the road but I'm not sure he will ever be what he was in the past here due to SEC speed.
    He'll never win more than 7 here and fans will eventually get tired and bored of us throwing 70 five yard passes a game

  16. #36
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    Step back to 30k feet and look at this:

    We hired a horrible coach in Joe. Inmates ran the asylum, discipline was non-existent, S&C was terrible, we all said he had put the program back "years"

    We hire a new coach. We have to get a transfer QB that can pass it like he wants. We get no spring.

    Flash forward 4 games: we're 1-3. the transfer QB couldn't' grasp the system. The OL sucks. Were it not for that we'd be 3-1 right now.

    And y'all are ready to pull the plug. Do y'all not get how INSANE that is?? If Franks sucked and Arky was 1-3, would you think it's reasonable to for their fans to want Pittman gone? Is it reasonable for FSU fans to want Norvell gone?

    You'd think any other fanbase in the country is CRAZY to want a new coach gone not even halfway in year 1 all because his transfer QB threw a ton of picks and the OL sucked. Have some perspective.

  17. #37
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    Step back to 30k feet and look at this:

    We hired a horrible coach in Joe. Inmates ran the asylum, discipline was non-existent, S&C was terrible, we all said he had put the program back "years"

    We hire a new coach. We have to get a transfer QB that can pass it like he wants. We get no spring.

    Flash forward 4 games: we're 1-3. the transfer QB couldn't' grasp the system. The OL sucks. Were it not for that we'd be 3-1 right now.

    And y'all are ready to pull the plug. Do y'all not get how INSANE that is?? If Franks sucked and Arky was 1-3, would you think it's reasonable to for their fans to want Pittman gone? Is it reasonable for FSU fans to want Norvell gone?

    You'd think any other fanbase in the country is CRAZY to want a new coach gone not even halfway in year 1 all because his transfer QB threw a ton of picks and the OL sucked. Have some perspective.
    Yup. It’s insane.

    Not saying they’re wrong, but it’s way early to jump to conclusions
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  18. #38
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Yup. It’s insane.
    Hiring an offensive coach that cant score is a problem. Nobody walked around making excuses for Mullen in 2009- ya know why? We got better
    Nobody walked around making excuses for Jackie his 1st year- why? We got better. Both coaches won

    When you hire a HC and the side of the ball he coaches gets worse? That is always cause for alarm
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

  19. #39
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Hiring an offensive coach that cant score is a problem. Nobody walked around making excuses for Mullen in 2009- ya know why? We got better
    Nobody walked around making excuses for Jackie his 1st year- why? We got better. Both coaches won

    When you hire a HC and the side of the ball he coaches gets worse? That is always cause for alarm
    Pretty sure both those guys had Spring practice
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  20. #40
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Pretty sure both those guys had Spring practice
    Leach had 2 months of practice before we played a game- plus our guys were running Air Raid routes during the Summer. Even though the coaches couldnt be on the field- they had the playbook and had had meetings on what to do. Excusing this BS is ridiculous

    Name me a couple of coaching changes that looked like shit in year 1 that got alot better?
    Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is

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