Cigar Boys

[FISHDAWG]

But I completely disagree with your opinion. I'm not going to sit here and watch someone that has no clue what they're looking at start crap.

Gun ... you have been ringing the Leach bell every since he was announced and crowned him the MSU savior before he even arrived on campus ... I'm surprised you didn't suggest a Coronation. He had some success at TT and moderate success at WSU ... he threw it around for a couple years at Kentucky, but so far we haven't seen anything in his game planning that would indicate he has enough objectivity to do what is necessary to adjust and at least be competitive NOW in the SEC. If this is the only evidence that that you are using to crown him the MSU Football savior then maybe you should take more of a wait and see instead of being so adamant to the point of insulting others and proclaiming in your Nostradamus type manner that you know how this shit is going to play out and nobody else has a clue then you're just wrong.
Most folks are stating their belief based on what they are seeing - and what they are seeing is so far this isn't working against mediocre SEC defenses and no adjustment are being made except for holding some bad attitudes out of the game. You may end up being right or you may end up being wrong but quit insulting folks and calling them or their comments dumb like you have everything figured out - if you're that 17'n good you need to send Saban a resume

[ShotgunDawg]

He had some success at TT and moderate success at WSU ...

You mean the best seasons they’ve ever had?

Pretty ridiculous that you can’t even acknowledge reality.

It was the Cigar Boy part of his post and lack effort I was calling, not whether or not Leach will win.

[FISHDAWG]

You mean the best seasons they?ve ever had?

Pretty ridiculous that you can?t even acknowledge reality.

It was the Cigar Boy part of his post and lack effort I was calling, not whether or not Leach will win.

TT and the PAC-12 aren't the SEC and I'm seeing now how PAC-12 QB's are .... I don't think he was calling for the cigar boys to start pressuring Cohen to fire leach... it was not much more than just blowing off steam - no-one in their right mind would be calling for Leach's job right now - I took it more like cynicism. I'm glad Leach gave TT / WSU their best seasons because that is the hope we cling to because we sure don't have anything in front of us to cling to right now. I think the problem is that some of us aren't sold (or never were) on this system working here and not seeing any attempt to adjust is a little discouraging.... AND THAT IS ACKNOWLEDGING REALITY

[Cowbell]

we been talking about cigar boys for 20 years... are they still even alive. does jr have any power?

It's fun to think about atleast LOL

[Cowbell]

I just thought your post was incredibly dumb. People tell me mine are dumb all the time, so I reciprocate when possible.

I'm just as frustrated as you are and other MSU are, but we showed signs of life in the 4th quarter and this has literally happened every place Leach has been.

I'll make you a deal, if 4 games into 2022 we still look like this, I'll be right there with you, but, at this point, there are signs (small ones that not everyone notices) that this thing is getting turned around.

Stick with it. Believe in the man that has won every where he's been and is one of the best offensive minds in history. Believe that what you saw from Will Rogers is real. See the signs because they are there.

We've got maybe the best football coach we've ever had at MSU. Please don't try to sabotage the process of him building it the right way. I promise it's closer to getting right that getting worse.

My post is not dumb. I believe in Leach as much as anybody but I'm seeing some very scary signs that tell me this is not going to be a match made in heaven. And he certainly has time to turn it around. But he is not getting the most out of what he has. And that is not good at MSU. Coaching the way he coached today will get him fired in 2022. Today was pitiful coaching. Starting with leaving KJ in for three quarters.

[ShotgunDawg]

My post is not dumb. I believe in Leach as much as anybody but I'm seeing some very scary signs that tell me this is not going to be a match made in heaven. And he certainly has time to turn it around. But he is not getting the most out of what he has. And that is not good at MSU. Coaching the way he coached today will get him fired in 2022. Today was pitiful coaching. Starting with leaving KJ in for three quarters.

Your post was dumb because it made inaccurate points based off your emotion and not fact.

Secondly, I agree if we still look like this in 2022 Leach may get fired, but we won't. We won't resemble this in two years.

We'll have a 3 year starter at QB, experienced Leach type WRs, and an offensive line that knows what they're doing.

Leach's offenses go as the QB goes. That' obvious. What's no so obvious but fairly likely is that he found that QB in the 4th quarter today.

Leach even said after the game that he's never had a FR QB conduct a drive like Will did against that Caliber of competition.

Just wait. I get it, it's frustrating, but it's coming. I feel like we're headed in the right direction more today than I have at any point.

[BeardoMSU]

Your post was dumb because it made inaccurate points based off your emotion and not fact.

Secondly, I agree if we still look like this in 2022 Leach may get fired, but we won't. We won't resemble this in two years.

We'll have a 3 year starter at QB, experienced Leach type WRs, and an offensive line that knows what they're doing.

Leach's offenses go as the QB goes. That' obvious. What's no so obvious but fairly likely is that he found that QB in the 4th quarter today.

Leach even said after the game that he's never had a FR QB conduct a drive like Will did against that Caliber of competition.

Just wait. I get it, it's frustrating, but it's coming. I feel like we're headed in the right direction more today than I have at any point.

I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.

[msu15]

I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.

Is it really though? Moorhead's first 4 SEC games resulted in 7, 6, 23, and 6 points in a 1-3 record.

[ShotgunDawg]

Is it really though? Moorhead's first 4 SEC games resulted in 7, 6, 23, and 6 points in a 1-3 record.

True. Moorhead was also taking over a quality coached offense, whereas Leach did not take over a quality coached offense.

I think Leach could've gone with Shrader and used his running ability as a safety net of sorts for the offense, but that's not who Leach is and he's rather struggle mightily and get his offense installed as quickly as possible

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.

I agree with this, but I'm not sure what the answer is.

Leach has a very unique system and we seem to be hell bent on diving into it 100% rather than dipping our toe in(Playing Shrader).

However, I think the worst is behind us. As with most new coaching staffs, you say "Better get them early". Well teams lucked out and got us early.

I think we're going to figure things out during this bye week, start Will, and begin taking major steps

[Cowbell]

You're wrong. And we can't keep firing coaches after one year. He will get three years at least barring a scandal.

Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.

[ShotgunDawg]

Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.

Moorhead didn't get fired for his offense, he got fired for lack of discipline and not being able to manage a football program.

Truth be told, if Moorhead could manage a football program, his offense likely would've worked at some point.

But regardless, Leach is 1,000 times better. I'm going to guess by the 2nd half of this season we won't resemble what we've been the last 3 games.

[Todd4State]

Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.

You titled the thread Cigar Boys- I took that as you think Leach should be in trouble or forced to change things- which will result in him leaving.

You also talked about poor effort on offense- there is a difference in getting beat and playing with poor effort. Our guys are getting beat. We scored when Will came on the game.

Adjustments- new wrinkles in the running game, totally new offensive line, sat Costello, and basically kicked Hill off the team which is anything Moorhead like.

This team reminds me more of Cohen's first two years as baseball coach. We struggled and we didn't quite have the players to do what he wanted to do- but once they got in he put MSU in a place where even Polk had never gone while adding to our baseball legacy greatly. And guess what? I remember people wanting Cohen and Butch gone. Instead we gave them a chance based on Cohen's track record and then we saw what happened.

Except I would say the baseball program was in worse shape than football. We play good defense and mostly good special teams. Offense has major issues but if we start Rogers today we probably win. And unlike baseball under Cohenat least we are competitive already. I'm sure Bama will kick our ass as always but after that if Will can manage the offense and mask the o-line with quicker decisions we could very possibly average 21-28 PPG down the stretch. Which would probably be enough to win almost all of our remaining games outside of maybe Georgia and Auburn with the way our defense has been playing. We just have a smaller margin for error because of our pieces on offense.

[ShotgunDawg]

You titled the thread Cigar Boys- I took that as you think Leach should be in trouble or forced to change things- which will result in him leaving.

You also talked about poor effort on offense- there is a difference in getting beat and playing with poor effort. Our guys are getting beat. We scored when Will came on the game.

Adjustments- new wrinkles in the running game, totally new offensive line, sat Costello, and basically kicked Hill off the team which is anything Moorhead like.

This team reminds me more of Cohen's first two years as baseball coach. We struggled and we didn't quite have the players to do what he wanted to do- but once they got in he put MSU in a place where even Polk had never gone while adding to our baseball legacy greatly. And guess what? I remember people wanting Cohen and Butch gone. Instead we gave them a chance based on Cohen's track record and then we saw what happened.

Except I would say the baseball program was in worse shape than football. We play good defense and mostly good special teams. Offense has major issues but if we start Rogers today we probably win. And unlike baseball under Cohenat least we are competitive already. I'm sure Bama will kick our ass as always but after that if Will can manage the offense and mask the o-line with quicker decisions we could very possibly average 21-28 PPG down the stretch. Which would probably be enough to win almost all of our remaining games outside of maybe Georgia and Auburn with the way our defense has been playing. We just have a smaller margin for error because of our pieces on offense.

This is an outstanding post.

[Hot Rock]

Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.

Same stuff that got Moorhead fired? Hell no! Obviously, you have no clue what you are talking about. You should read more and post less because the more you say them more you look uninformed, at best.

[Dawgology]

Same stuff that got Moorhead fired? Hell no! Obviously, you have no clue what you are talking about. You should read more and post less because the more you say them more you look uninformed, at best.

Anyone trying to compare Moorhead to Leach needs to be ignored because they clearly are a little slow. Just let them vent and move on.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Anyone trying to compare Moorhead to Leach needs to be ignored because they clearly are a little slow. Just let them vent and move on.

I don't think anyone is comparing Leach and Moorhead as HC's. I think they're comparing that some are making the same excuses for Leach as some tried to make for Moorhead and they were raked over the coals for. I've been vocal since the beginning that I don't think this is going to work in the SEC, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give Leach 2-3 years to get his people in here. I think people just want to see improvement of any kind and right now we aren't seeing it and it's going to be more of the same in two weeks in Bryant Denny.

[Cowbell]

I don't think anyone is comparing Leach and Moorhead as HC's. I think they're comparing that some are making the same excuses for Leach as some tried to make for Moorhead and they were raked over the coals for. I've been vocal since the beginning that I don't think this is going to work in the SEC, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give Leach 2-3 years to get his people in here. I think people just want to see improvement of any kind and right now we aren't seeing it and it's going to be more of the same in two weeks in Bryant Denny.

Thank you for having good reading comprehension and understanding this thread. Some of us just see red flags but I think we all agree that they can go away with time.

[Dawgology]

I don't think anyone is comparing Leach and Moorhead as HC's. I think they're comparing that some are making the same excuses for Leach as some tried to make for Moorhead and they were raked over the coals for. I've been vocal since the beginning that I don't think this is going to work in the SEC, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give Leach 2-3 years to get his people in here. I think people just want to see improvement of any kind and right now we aren't seeing it and it's going to be more of the same in two weeks in Bryant Denny.

The big BIG difference is that Leach is a proven winner and two decade head coach whereas Moorhead was a new coach that looked completely lost. Leach has earned more time due to the fact that he wins everywhere he goes. It’s that simple. If we are still having issues like this in year three then yeah it’s time to look at other options. But right now it’s not even close to the same situation Moorhead walked in to. Not remotely close.

[Cowbell]

Moorhead didn't get fired for his offense, he got fired for lack of discipline and not being able to manage a football program.

Truth be told, if Moorhead could manage a football program, his offense likely would've worked at some point.

But regardless, Leach is 1,000 times better. I'm going to guess by the 2nd half of this season we won't resemble what we've been the last 3 games.

Gun my response was to Todd, not you. You have got to be more respectful of others on this page and not make every other post on a thread. I get your opinion. I got it on every other thread since the game ended.
And my opinion is not based on emotion. It's what I saw today on the field. No based on Leach's past or where I think we will be in two years. Based on today, he did a very poor job offensively with what he had. Period.