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Thread: Cigar Boys

  1. #21
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.
    Moorhead didn't get fired for his offense, he got fired for lack of discipline and not being able to manage a football program.

    Truth be told, if Moorhead could manage a football program, his offense likely would've worked at some point.

    But regardless, Leach is 1,000 times better. I'm going to guess by the 2nd half of this season we won't resemble what we've been the last 3 games.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member BeardoMSU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Your post was dumb because it made inaccurate points based off your emotion and not fact.

    Secondly, I agree if we still look like this in 2022 Leach may get fired, but we won't. We won't resemble this in two years.

    We'll have a 3 year starter at QB, experienced Leach type WRs, and an offensive line that knows what they're doing.

    Leach's offenses go as the QB goes. That' obvious. What's no so obvious but fairly likely is that he found that QB in the 4th quarter today.

    Leach even said after the game that he's never had a FR QB conduct a drive like Will did against that Caliber of competition.

    Just wait. I get it, it's frustrating, but it's coming. I feel like we're headed in the right direction more today than I have at any point.
    I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.

  3. #23
    Senior Member msu15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardoMSU View Post
    I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.
    Is it really though? Moorhead's first 4 SEC games resulted in 7, 6, 23, and 6 points in a 1-3 record.
    "We will have no problem in handling Kentucky."-Turfdawg67. MSU suffered a 27-17 defeat in 2022 with 225 yards in total offense.

  4. #24
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardoMSU View Post
    I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.
    I agree with this, but I'm not sure what the answer is.

    Leach has a very unique system and we seem to be hell bent on diving into it 100% rather than dipping our toe in(Playing Shrader).

    However, I think the worst is behind us. As with most new coaching staffs, you say "Better get them early". Well teams lucked out and got us early.

    I think we're going to figure things out during this bye week, start Will, and begin taking major steps
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Moorhead didn't get fired for his offense, he got fired for lack of discipline and not being able to manage a football program.

    Truth be told, if Moorhead could manage a football program, his offense likely would've worked at some point.

    But regardless, Leach is 1,000 times better. I'm going to guess by the 2nd half of this season we won't resemble what we've been the last 3 games.
    Gun my response was to Todd, not you. You have got to be more respectful of others on this page and not make every other post on a thread. I get your opinion. I got it on every other thread since the game ended.
    And my opinion is not based on emotion. It's what I saw today on the field. No based on Leach's past or where I think we will be in two years. Based on today, he did a very poor job offensively with what he had. Period.

  6. #26
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msu15 View Post
    Is it really though? Moorhead's first 4 SEC games resulted in 7, 6, 23, and 6 points in a 1-3 record.
    True. Moorhead was also taking over a quality coached offense, whereas Leach did not take over a quality coached offense.

    I think Leach could've gone with Shrader and used his running ability as a safety net of sorts for the offense, but that's not who Leach is and he's rather struggle mightily and get his offense installed as quickly as possible
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by msu15 View Post
    Is it really though? Moorhead's first 4 SEC games resulted in 7, 6, 23, and 6 points in a 1-3 record.
    But how many points did the Moorhead offenses give up - lol? Those pic 6s mean we have given up more points than we have scored in two games.

  8. #28
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    Gun my response was to Todd, not you. You have got to be more respectful of others on this page and not make every other post on a thread. I get your opinion. I got it on every other thread since the game ended.
    And my opinion is not based on emotion. It's what I saw today on the field. No based on Leach's past or where I think we will be in two years. Based on today, he did a very poor job offensively with what he had. Period.
    Ok. So we should call the cigar boys and put Leach's job on line based off only today without perspective about where we are going in the future?

    I just want to make sure I understand where you stand.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  9. #29
    Senior Member msu15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    But how many points did the Moorhead offenses give up - lol? Those pic 6s mean we have given up more points than we have scored in two games.
    True lol, but I disagree in the statement that Moorhead's offense was better by this point. Both have been equally shit with our players looking just as confused.
    "We will have no problem in handling Kentucky."-Turfdawg67. MSU suffered a 27-17 defeat in 2022 with 225 yards in total offense.

  10. #30
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msu15 View Post
    True lol, but I disagree in the statement that Moorhead's offense was better by this point. Both have been equally shit with our players looking just as confused.
    I remember Mullen's offense working pretty quickly, but then again it didn't work against teams with talent, so maybe it needed a little more complexity.

    What Leach really needed was a normal schedule against some G5 team where somethings could be ironed out and guys could gain confidence and find rhythm
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Ok. So we should call the cigar boys and put Leach's job on line based off only today with perspective about where we are going?

    I just want to make sure I understand where you stand.
    Stop overthinking this. The 'cigar boys' is just an attention getter. Nowhere have I said I think we need to fire the guy. I have been 100% behind Leach since he got here. But he is exhibiting some signs that concern me. Signs that I think will be problems even after he gets things rolling (as I believe he will at some point). I do not like the effort or anything about the offense today. It was putrid. Plain and simple.

  12. #32
    Senior Member msu15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    I remember Mullen's offense working pretty quickly, but then again it didn't work against teams with talent, so maybe it needed a little more complexity.

    What Leach really needed was a normal schedule against some G5 team where somethings could be ironed out and guys could gain confidence and find rhythm
    And even then, we had some growing pains that season. Against Houston and Georgia Tech, Lee and Dixon had like 3 or 4 fumbles on the read option, and it directly cost us the Houston game and a subsequent bowl birth. Also Lee not pitching to Dixon for the TD against LSU. Guys not recruited for the system.
    "We will have no problem in handling Kentucky."-Turfdawg67. MSU suffered a 27-17 defeat in 2022 with 225 yards in total offense.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    They're thinking, "can we furlough them or cut their pay".*

  14. #34
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.
    You titled the thread Cigar Boys- I took that as you think Leach should be in trouble or forced to change things- which will result in him leaving.

    You also talked about poor effort on offense- there is a difference in getting beat and playing with poor effort. Our guys are getting beat. We scored when Will came on the game.

    Adjustments- new wrinkles in the running game, totally new offensive line, sat Costello, and basically kicked Hill off the team which is anything Moorhead like.

    This team reminds me more of Cohen's first two years as baseball coach. We struggled and we didn't quite have the players to do what he wanted to do- but once they got in he put MSU in a place where even Polk had never gone while adding to our baseball legacy greatly. And guess what? I remember people wanting Cohen and Butch gone. Instead we gave them a chance based on Cohen's track record and then we saw what happened.

    Except I would say the baseball program was in worse shape than football. We play good defense and mostly good special teams. Offense has major issues but if we start Rogers today we probably win. And unlike baseball under Cohenat least we are competitive already. I'm sure Bama will kick our ass as always but after that if Will can manage the offense and mask the o-line with quicker decisions we could very possibly average 21-28 PPG down the stretch. Which would probably be enough to win almost all of our remaining games outside of maybe Georgia and Auburn with the way our defense has been playing. We just have a smaller margin for error because of our pieces on offense.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    I remember Mullen's offense working pretty quickly, but then again it didn't work against teams with talent, so maybe it needed a little more complexity.

    What Leach really needed was a normal schedule against some G5 team where somethings could be ironed out and guys could gain confidence and find rhythm
    But....but.... those games are boring!**

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    You titled the thread Cigar Boys- I took that as you think Leach should be in trouble or forced to change things- which will result in him leaving.

    You also talked about poor effort on offense- there is a difference in getting beat and playing with poor effort. Our guys are getting beat. We scored when Will came on the game.

    Adjustments- new wrinkles in the running game, totally new offensive line, sat Costello, and basically kicked Hill off the team which is anything Moorhead like.

    This team reminds me more of Cohen's first two years as baseball coach. We struggled and we didn't quite have the players to do what he wanted to do- but once they got in he put MSU in a place where even Polk had never gone while adding to our baseball legacy greatly. And guess what? I remember people wanting Cohen and Butch gone. Instead we gave them a chance based on Cohen's track record and then we saw what happened.

    Except I would say the baseball program was in worse shape than football. We play good defense and mostly good special teams. Offense has major issues but if we start Rogers today we probably win. And unlike baseball under Cohenat least we are competitive already. I'm sure Bama will kick our ass as always but after that if Will can manage the offense and mask the o-line with quicker decisions we could very possibly average 21-28 PPG down the stretch. Which would probably be enough to win almost all of our remaining games outside of maybe Georgia and Auburn with the way our defense has been playing. We just have a smaller margin for error because of our pieces on offense.
    Appreciate your take.

  17. #37
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    You titled the thread Cigar Boys- I took that as you think Leach should be in trouble or forced to change things- which will result in him leaving.

    You also talked about poor effort on offense- there is a difference in getting beat and playing with poor effort. Our guys are getting beat. We scored when Will came on the game.

    Adjustments- new wrinkles in the running game, totally new offensive line, sat Costello, and basically kicked Hill off the team which is anything Moorhead like.

    This team reminds me more of Cohen's first two years as baseball coach. We struggled and we didn't quite have the players to do what he wanted to do- but once they got in he put MSU in a place where even Polk had never gone while adding to our baseball legacy greatly. And guess what? I remember people wanting Cohen and Butch gone. Instead we gave them a chance based on Cohen's track record and then we saw what happened.

    Except I would say the baseball program was in worse shape than football. We play good defense and mostly good special teams. Offense has major issues but if we start Rogers today we probably win. And unlike baseball under Cohenat least we are competitive already. I'm sure Bama will kick our ass as always but after that if Will can manage the offense and mask the o-line with quicker decisions we could very possibly average 21-28 PPG down the stretch. Which would probably be enough to win almost all of our remaining games outside of maybe Georgia and Auburn with the way our defense has been playing. We just have a smaller margin for error because of our pieces on offense.
    This is an outstanding post.
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

    Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More

  18. #38
    Our Pretentious Preacher preachermatt83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Imagine watching a program you had no emotional attachment to, that sucked on offense the year before, and thinking they should fire their new coach, who is one of the greatest offensive minds ever, after 4 games when he is installing a new system with new players.

    Imagine seeing that from 30K feet and thinking that the person calling for the firing was a sane human. Just think about that
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by preachermatt83 View Post
    +10000
    You can change your sig now. C34 is back

  20. #40
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    Anyone wanting to fire Leach needs a psychiatrist and a new mirror.

    We could easily have been 3-0 heading into today.

    We outgained Arkansas and Kentucky. We looked discombobulated doing that. We played well enough to win today and saw what the offense can look like with a QB ready to run it.

    Not to mention the sour culture left by the last clown show staff.

    I think the Covid has really had a mental impact on many here. Relax. The Gunslinger Will Rogers offense in the 2nd half is more of what we will see in the future. Our pets heads are not falling off.

    These posts about firing ML are making me rethink even getting back on here. It?s fine to post worries and questions, but posting pure ignorance makes us all look stupid. Please stop and act like adults.

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