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Thread: Dumb Players??

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    Dumb Players??

    Serious question - Moorhead?s system was too complex. Players looked confused and not knowing where to go. Fast forward to leach - no play sheet, simple offense - receivers don?t know how to sit in a zone. Are these players just not capable of running a system? Are they better suited to the Dan Mullen offense at MSU where we went as far as the QB could run? Why is it so difficult here??

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    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    It's been the same everywhere Leach has been. It's not just here. Takes a year or two.
    Talent in the upper classes isn't good either.
    Last edited by Cooterpoot; 10-15-2020 at 11:01 PM.

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    In 2000 Texas Tech he had a 7-6 season and 2 losses were against the #1 team in the Nation (Huskers and Sooners). Following Season, he was 7-5 losing to 3 National top-5 teams

    Kliff Kingsbury threw for 3100 yards that first season, 3500 the next

    Wasn’t Spike Dykes a power I team before Leach?

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    Senior Member StateDawg44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer View Post
    In 2000 Texas Tech he had a 7-6 season and 2 losses were against the #1 team in the Nation (Huskers and Sooners). Following Season, he was 7-5 losing to 3 National top-5 teams

    Kliff Kingsbury threw for 3100 yards that first season, 3500 the next

    Wasn’t Spike Dykes a power I team before Leach?
    It was also 20 years ago. Comparing that landscape to today's college football landscape is pointless. Much less how the air raid was still somewhat new.

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    Well you know I was wondering how OM can do it and we can't as far as implementing an offense and after watching OM it was pretty clear the difference. Kiffin is treating it a lot like Freeze did - a passing play has a primary receiver and if that's not there 90% of the time you immediately dump to RB or tuck and run. You don't see Corral scanning the field for option 2 and 3 very often at all. They follow the play design and it either works or they try to pick up a few yards on a scramble/dump off.

    That can really clear a QB's head so long as he can remember who option #1 is. Kiffin has done a great job calling plays for the most part this year as well but that was known to be his strenght.

    Now that teams are throwing a 8 man zone against us it's all up to the QB to read that zone and for receivers to pick soft spots. Both groups seem to have really struggled with that. When you know what you are getting on D you should know where you want to go with the throw pre-snap but you can tell there is a lot of indecision out of KJ the last two games. I remember hearing a DC talk one time and he said the number one call of the defense was to make the QB question what he was seeing. That if you could slow down the reads that mistakes go up exponentially and that's exactly what you've seen the past few games.

    I don't think our QB is dumb to get it, I just think he's gotten in his own head. WR what you learn is a lot like basketball - some guys have a natural feel for where to be and how to manipulate a zone, others have to learn it through 1,000 reps and some just never get it at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StateDawg44 View Post
    It was also 20 years ago. Comparing that landscape to today's college football landscape is pointless. Much less how the air raid was still somewhat new.
    Was I comparing anything? But if I were -

    The biggest difference from 20 years ago:

    (1) Nebraska, Miami, USC, and Ohio State were the Top-4 programs, all Pro-Set except for the Huskers
    (2) Stoops was a young genius at OU
    (3) Texas was a juggernaut
    (4) SEC was pretty good as always - Saban was in LSU
    (5) Oklahoma (Stoops) and Oklahoma State (Miles/Gundy) were already Air Raid and in Transition
    (6) Kansas State was quite good, BCS good and Power Spread but not really Spread but hard to stop
    (7) The new Air Raid teams had to convert QBs that were not AR ready and change the positions of athletes that were DBs, Running Backs, and Safeties in WRs - big time at OU
    (8) Slot men with great hands and wiggle like Wes Welker became heros - too small to be a pro-set WR for the Sooners but great for AR at TTU

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    Senior Member TheLostDawg's Avatar
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    Again, ole Miss offense was fairly well coached. The defense wasn't. As a result, offense doing good. Defense sucks.
    We're the complete opposite. Defense well coached so they just had to learn the system. Our offense is learning the fundamentals. We will improve. However like the announcers were saying, KJ is learning how to read a new defense which is why he's making the mistakes (along with the o line letting him get killed every third play). He'll learn. Rodgers knows how to play the offense and I imagine somewhat how to read the defense. However the line has to do a better job blocking.

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    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    This right here hits the nail on the head for me.

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    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    With all the 7 on 7 these days in HS, how do WRs and QBs not know how to pick apart a zone defense?
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

    Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More

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    I saw the title and thought this was a Chris Relf thread.

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    When the majority of your players were educated in the Mississippi school system, what do you expect. Their teachers were schooled in the "no child left behind era". Which means they did not learn much as they were passed anyway. Now they are the teachers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile Bay View Post
    I saw the title and thought this was a Chris Relf thread.
    He looked pretty Smart winning 3 Egg Bowls

    2009 was special and that was Relf basically punching OM in the face

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    Senior Member Maroonthirteen's Avatar
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    In defense of the players and Mississippi public schools, it's the offensive scheme that is simple and dumb. Coach did neither.

    5v8. Pass pass pass pass. Never adjust.

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    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Dawg View Post
    When the majority of your players were educated in the Mississippi school system, what do you expect. Their teachers were schooled in the "no child left behind era". Which means they did not learn much as they were passed anyway. Now they are the teachers.
    Our "best" receiver is from Florida.

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    Zone Blocking Specialist coachnorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    With all the 7 on 7 these days in HS, how do WRs and QBs not know how to pick apart a zone defense?

    Some programs are built to win 7 on 7 contests. They are not willing to loose 7 on 7 contests to expose their shortcomings. Getting open on time in a regular game is different than 7 on 7? In regular games, receivers do not get as open so they have to win their match-ups? Many high school football programs just run man coverage during 7 on 7s and zone during the real season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    Our "best" receiver is from Florida.
    Did you miss the word majority ?

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    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer View Post
    (5) Oklahoma (Stoops) and Oklahoma State (Miles/Gundy) were already Air Raid and in Transition
    Miles didn't arrive at OSU until 2001....but you think he was running some version of the Air Raid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    Miles didn't arrive at OSU until 2001....but you think he was running some version of the Air Raid?
    Gundy was the OC and they used like six different QBs and schemes In the transformation process. By 2003, those TTU vs OSU games were insane shootouts.

    They could not matchup with the Sooners so miles just “let her rip”. It was the aggressive OU victories that catapulted him to the LSU job. Entertaining chaos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    Miles didn't arrive at OSU until 2001....but you think he was running some version of the Air Raid?
    Probably this topic hinges on what is the difference in these mostly throw or generally throw offenses

    Mouse Davis was featured in sports illustrated almost 40 years ago about inventing the Run and Shoot. You had that applied in the NFL of the late 80s and 90s. Is that AR?

    Mississippi Valley State was AR in the early 80’s the time of Jerry Rice

    Then you have the Northwestern Offense of Kevin Wilson. Balanced run with a mobile QB or with Adrian Peterson on your team. Or nearly all throw with Bradford at QB

  20. #20
    Senior Member SailingDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Dawg View Post
    When the majority of your players were educated in the Mississippi school system, what do you expect. Their teachers were schooled in the "no child left behind era". Which means they did not learn much as they were passed anyway. Now they are the teachers.
    I don't think the 15 year old 7th grader in my class will be a teacher, thanks for your opinion on teacher education and certification, though.

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