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Thread: Only ways this works

  1. #1
    Super Moderator CadaverDawg's Avatar
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    Only ways this works

    1) OL must block better. WAY better

    2) QB can't throw picks

    3) Must run the ball some to punish them for dropping 8. (#1 applies to this as well)

    4) Must be able to throw deeper routes, which again points to #1. Better blocking of a 3 man rush leads to having tons of time for the zone to get spread and guys to become more open in deeper areas.

    So better blocking (#1) and eliminate the picks (#2)? Sounds simple but we haven't been close the last few weeks on these two key objectives.

    Am I way off?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    No I don't think you are off.

    That's why I am expecting Rogers to start Saturday along with a re-worked offensive line.

    I think our season depends on Rogers now. If he is able to manage the game and cut down the turnovers we will be fine. If he isn't ready we're screwed. Which is a possibility given that he is a freshman.

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    Senior Member msbulldog's Avatar
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    I think given a little game time Will will be alright, after all he's run this offense his whole life. He put up some amazing numbers In HS.
    Praise The Lord and Go Dawgs!!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadaverDawg View Post
    1) OL must block better. WAY better

    2) QB can't throw picks

    3) Must run the ball some to punish them for dropping 8. (#1 applies to this as well)

    4) Must be able to throw deeper routes, which again points to #1. Better blocking of a 3 man rush leads to having tons of time for the zone to get spread and guys to become more open in deeper areas.

    So better blocking (#1) and eliminate the picks (#2)? Sounds simple but we haven't been close the last few weeks on these two key objectives.

    Am I way off?
    The only way we'll be able to throw deeper routes will be to get defenses to play more people up at the line. And to do that you have to have a threat to gash them with the run, hence why the RPO was created. Our little delay draws won't cut it. It's too telegraphed and slow developing.

    Also, defenses are giving us the 2-3 yard check downs cause they know their LBs can make a play on it and playing it downfield while watching the QBs eyes.

    Leach is never going to have all day long to sit back and throw these deep patterns in this conference. You have better speed rushers, faster LBers and safeties. If he had 4.5 seconds to throw in the pac 12, it'll be 3 max in the SEC. And the closer you get to the end zone the harder it will get.

    We'll never be able to accumulate the perfect OLine, perfect WRs, and perfect QB to make things aline to do what he wants.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Maverick91's Avatar
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    Even if Rogers makes mistakes, I can live it because he isn't a 5 year senior thought to be a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. Also, we would be setting him up for great success next year.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Maroonthirteen's Avatar
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    In 2018 and 2019, Leach's offense ranked 1st in most offensive categories. However, in 2018 and 2019 his offense ranked near the bottom in the PAC12 in yards per attempt and yards per completion. His offense ranked last in rushing attempts and rushing yards.

    What you have seen is what we will get from here on out..... dink and dunk until we score or have a mistake to put us behind the chains/then punt or turnover. State is just going to have to cut down on turnovers and penalties to avoid being behind the sticks.

  7. #7
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    The offense will work if we cut down on turnovers, even if the OL does not show a ton of improvement. If you really look at it, we have moved the ball some the last few games. The turnovers have just been decimating.

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    If we just don't turn the ball over at an alarming rate (12 the last two games, yea I'm counting the 2 turnovers on downs vs ark), we are 3-0. It's not that complicated.

    There is nothing wrong with taking 5 yards every play, which is there. That's the primary counter to the drop 8, even if you can't run the ball. Sit down 5 yards past the center. It has been there every time, literally. We've just killed ourselves with turnovers and penalties and not taking the 5 yards every play.

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    Turnovers are the only reason we aren't undefeated. We haven't even been able to get field goals on some of these drives where we make it most of the way down the field. Obviously you would prefer TD's, but settling for a field goal is still way better than turning it over and getting nothing. And that would've made a difference in both of the last two games for us. If you merely replace these pick sixes and interceptions deep in opponent territory with field goals then we are sitting at 3-0. Turn those plays into TD's and we win both games comfortably.

    If it's not there, don't force it. If it is there, hit the open receiver. I realize that the zone makes things more of a grind for this offense, and the o-line play has to get better too, but just executing the little things will go a long way.

    We're 1-2 and have looked awful our last two games, and yet I still feel like every game other than Georgia and Bama is winnable the rest of the way if we just protect the ball better.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd4State View Post
    No I don't think you are off.

    That's why I am expecting Rogers to start Saturday along with a re-worked offensive line.

    I think our season depends on Rogers now. If he is able to manage the game and cut down the turnovers we will be fine. If he isn't ready we're screwed. Which is a possibility given that he is a freshman.
    Will is not starting Saturday.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaggardDawg View Post
    Will is not starting Saturday.
    He's going to play a lot.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    If we just don't turn the ball over at an alarming rate (12 the last two games, yea I'm counting the 2 turnovers on downs vs ark), we are 3-0. It's not that complicated.

    There is nothing wrong with taking 5 yards every play, which is there. That's the primary counter to the drop 8, even if you can't run the ball. Sit down 5 yards past the center. It has been there every time, literally. We've just killed ourselves with turnovers and penalties and not taking the 5 yards every play.
    Taking the 5 yards every time is not the solution. Got to get some chunk plays off of those. We can't throw 15 five yard passes every series.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    He's going to play a lot.
    If KJ starts, he better be on the tightest leash ever.
    #SwingUrSword #HailDamnState

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    Your are not far off in my mind but maybe on the running aspect.

    Leech's offense attacks space but not so much how that space is attacked with run vs pass is important. Run is just easier to coach and execute, that's why I think so many coaches don't like this pass happy style. Running is not any more effective than a properly executed short pass to the under defended space but that execution level is way easier to obtain from a handoff. Here are my thoughts on what needs to improve, in this order.

    1) O-Line much block 3 and 4 man rushes with ease. That has to be the priority. That has to happen in order for this offense or any offense to work. It all starts up front. I am not optimistic this will change quickly. Our interior linemen are not used to blocking in space like they are being asked to do now. I am hoping they can at least keep improving though.

    2) Limit turnovers from QB position -- that will be much easier to accomplish with better O-Line play

    3) Better execution and timing on routes.. no more 2 of 4 WR's run the right route. No more running full out through the open zone area or not giving every play full effort. This only gets better with practice and/or benching guys that don't' get it. The best pro WR's find away to get open in a zone defense. Lots of NFL teams play man to man but they all swap coverages to zone throughout and if a WR can't learn Leech's requirements then they probably wont have a chance in the NFL and that's their goal


    How will all this happen in such a short period of time? It won't, but I hope to see improvement along the way and get a win or two more this year. Hell, they could win this weekend. That defense looks to be pretty damn good. No turnovers and we in it. I think.

  15. #15
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Taking the 5 yards every time is not the solution. Got to get some chunk plays off of those. We can't throw 15 five yard passes every series.
    Cooter, what's your solution for the 3/8? Somehow that 8 man zone has to be manipulated to allow some big plays.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Taking the 5 yards every time is not the solution. Got to get some chunk plays off of those. We can't throw 15 five yard passes every series.
    This is true but until they can execute the 5 yards that are given and then block 3 or 4 man rushes better those deep throws wont' be there.

    It does remind me of the problem with Croom's West Coat issues. It did not matter who the defenders were, that group never learned to execute the plays. Croom's coaches did not have the ability to teach the West Coast to the players he had on campus even after years of trying it seemed to get worse.

    Can Leech teach it? He has a track record of doing just that. He has had 18 years developing his system. Leech's system is easy to learn but hard to perfect. That's why they go through so much repetition. I for one think he can do it even if it takes him some time.

  17. #17
    Senior Member biscuit's Avatar
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    How many players have been "purged" so far?
    Wrap it in Maroon and White

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    He's going to play a lot.
    For sure. But I know he's not starting. KJ will have one more chance to get it going

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooterpoot View Post
    Taking the 5 yards every time is not the solution. Got to get some chunk plays off of those. We can't throw 15 five yard passes every series.
    1. You absolutely can if you had to. The two TD drives vs ark were 15 plays, 75 yards and 14 plays, 76 yards.
    2. You won't have to. Once you prove you're willing to do it and score every possession, those 12-15 yard passes will be open. Nobody is saying it is the long term goal of the offense, but it is a solution to the drop 8.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrapGame View Post
    Cooter, what's your solution for the 3/8? Somehow that 8 man zone has to be manipulated to allow some big plays.
    The idea that you can't go over top of a 3 deep zone (or quarters) is wrong. Bama does it every week. Your receiver gets on the corners toes at 20-25 yards and he has to turn his back and run with the wr. It's bump and run man at that point. 4 verts, or even 3, will occupy all deep guys. Just have to protect enough to allow it and a qb with enough arm (which I'm not sure kj has with his injury).

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